15 November 2016, 06:21 | #21 | |
Code Kitten
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 52
Posts: 1,178
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Quote:
Also images designed for CRT monitors look awfully blocky on very large LCD screens. The pixels that these graphics were designed for were way more rounder than the perfectly square ones produced by 20+ inches LCDs and that is the reason why most emulators and the best upscalers have CRT scanline emulation: the images look noticeably better with these on. As I said in another post above, it all depends on the job to be done: I am not going to do graphics on a big LCD but for debugging it is much more practical. Thanks for all your responses! |
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15 November 2016, 12:49 | #22 |
Registered User
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Location: Stockholm
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I don't understand why people blame poor Amiga output with LCDs on pixels being perfectly square. With LCD screens, you always have a scaler between the Amiga and the final output. The scaler can take two paths to rendering the Amiga display on a screen with a totally different resolution than the Amiga's:
1. Map to nearest neighbour. Which means that if you try to map an Amiga resolution of something like 720x576 (it's never 320x200 or 320x256 unless you crop the overscan borders) to a screen resolution of 1280x1024 or 1600x1200, most Amiga pixels will fall somewhere between the LCD pixels. So if you have a row of Amiga pixels like this: Code:
# # # # # # Code:
## ## ## ## ## ## Code:
## # # ## ### ## Code:
# # # # # # Code:
#~ ~#~# ~# ~# ~#~ But in the end, you never get a sharp picture with square pixels. Method 1 gives you sharp pixels, but not square ones. Method 2 gives you something looking like square pixels, but not sharp pixels. LCD screens expect you to use the screen's native resolution, and everything else is rendered as an afterthought, perhaps even with a helpful warning that you're using the wrong resolution superimposed over your picture. You can see this on even some of the most popular LCD monitors amongst Amiga users, such as the Dell 2001fp (blocky, smeared and irregular pixels) or Nec Multisync 1701 (blocky, irregular pixels). Or you don't see it at all because you're totally insensitive to things such as aspect ratios or sharpness. |
06 January 2017, 05:10 | #23 |
Code Kitten
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 52
Posts: 1,178
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The best solution is probably to go through a proper 15kHz to HDMI/whatever converter such as the Framemeister.
These kittens will cost you one genital and half an arm but they will get the scaling correctly and offer an enormous amount of configurability. Taking their total life time into account (decades, likely), their high price is quite reasonable in the end. Also, they emulate scanlines fairly well. |
06 January 2017, 05:55 | #24 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 481
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Dell U2410 getting a lot of fans on amiga,org,
Apparetly does not do PAL interlaced, but everything else is a goer. Personally will prolly try a flat screen TV instead. More input choices than a monitor. |
06 January 2017, 15:18 | #25 |
old bearded fool
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangkok
Age: 56
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CRT or die!
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07 January 2017, 00:46 | #26 | |
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Location: Stockholm
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Quote:
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07 January 2017, 01:22 | #27 |
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Framemeister price gets a lot of bad rep. I mean, seriously, it's only about 300 dollars, isn't it?
There is a point with this kinda stuff where you have to stop or never be a cheapskate, because in the long run, it ends up being more annoying and costing more. Good CRTs aren't cheap, and a lot of them don't last long before you need a new one. A PVM/BVM of good quality with RGB is also not cheap. LCDs that are compatible are probably more feeble than CRTs and create all sorts of artifaction even in the best scenario, as explained above. Personally I might grab an OSSC when it's available next, even though I have plenty of CRT and LCD displays that work fine. |
07 January 2017, 04:02 | #28 |
Banned
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25 February 2017, 01:33 | #29 |
Supernormal
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Age: 43
Posts: 1,410
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I bought an Asus VW227D but will receive it in two weeks. I wonder if it really works.
Supposedly it does 15khz and 50hz. |
21 March 2017, 05:03 | #30 |
Supernormal
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Age: 43
Posts: 1,410
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The VW227D works great. The interlaced mode makes every other line kind of semi-transparent though. Because of that ever other line, pixels from the up and down gets mixed. Superhires looks awful.
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21 March 2017, 15:11 | #31 |
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Location: Czech Rep
Posts: 599
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Can the picture be stretched to 4:3 ratio? Some pictures how well it looks would be nice too
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24 March 2017, 01:03 | #32 | |
Supernormal
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Age: 43
Posts: 1,410
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Quote:
Most of the resolutions have some upper part of picture cut off. I just realized that. I think the monitor might have some kind of adjustment for that though. I will try it later. |
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24 March 2017, 01:18 | #33 |
Registered User
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Location: Czech Rep
Posts: 599
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Thanks for the video, the picture looks good indeed. There definitely will be options for picture adjustments in osb menu.
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