15 August 2002, 22:47 | #41 |
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It is fair to only credit Microsoft with Business savvy. Unlike Atari and Commodore who even together couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery, M$ knew how to exploit the business world, whereas CBM, Atari Corp and Acorn failed miserably. Again, Apple have to be credited for their slim survival. And thats the word: survival.
But make no mistake, Windows, considering the horsepower it sucks up is pretty darn sh**. It would be like a car that only goes 1 mile on 10 gallons or something...And sorry unknown_k, having been forced to use Windows 3.1 in the mid nineties after being raised on Amigas was a SHOCK to say the least. That OS blew chunks, as does Win95. As far as im concerned only the recent Win2000 and to a degree Windows XP have finally been slightly respectable. But heres the irony these products were based (NT) on OTHER peoples technology! Let us not forget that Microsoft Basic wasnt written by Bill Gates! He bought it from someone else! IE, being based on Mosaic! All throughout its history, M$ has Borg-like assimilated other peoples work and sold as their own thanks to cold hard $$$. They dont create ideas. They steal other peoples. I dread to imagine how far we truly are in terms of Operating Systems thanks to Bill Gates evil minions chasing profit before progress. |
16 August 2002, 01:22 | #42 |
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People get very pasionate about their computers, its like talking religion and politics.
As an engineer with a patent, I respect inovation. But inovation that doesnt get to the masses is basically worthless. An ancient Greek invented a steam enguine way back in BC times, he used it for a toy that would spin.. imagine what would have happened if he spread the idea and people used it as a tool, who knows what the world would be like now. And dont forget every inovation is built on the back of millions of other inovations from the people before you. Even with marketing if your product is not at least usable nobody will buy it The reason I got rid of my C64 in the late 80's and purchased a 286 PC was because I needed to run specific programs used at college. I dont care how great a OS/System is if the software I need to get a job done isnt available for it. Once you switch to a platform (especially an expensive one) its hard to justify jumping to another system unless it offers something you need your current system doesnt do. Most people have alot more money invested in system specific software then the hardware itself. in the buisiness world people decide what software they need, then go buy the hardware they need to run it. The videotoaster + software for video digitising made people buy amiga's , same with quark making people buy macs, and these days videogames make people buy Intel PC's. From what I remember the original spreadsheet sold alot of apple 2's because it was the only machine that had the program. Software is what drives the industry and it doesnt surprise me that a software company became dominant and alot of hardware companies bit the dust. it also doesnt surprise me that a computer made from open source off the shelf parts ended up being the leading hardware platform. it definatly wasnt the best hardware in existance but people could clone it and that in itself made it better. |
16 August 2002, 01:31 | #43 | |||||
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16 August 2002, 02:05 | #44 | ||||||
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16 August 2002, 02:21 | #45 |
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Sorry to interject. Just a small point.
I don't get this PC Gaming Machine bit. I never have. Maybe it's because I'm not a big fan of FPS or RTS games. Dunno. I just know the PC is the LAST platform I think of when it comes to playing games on. You can't use it drunk, or high . No real plug and play. Too much fiddly shit. You dig? Anyway. Please continue debating. |
16 August 2002, 02:40 | #46 |
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RTS and FPS games are where the PC is better equipped for the task. Basically anything where a keyboard and mouse cant be replaced with a game controller easily. Also its great for games that already established for online play, something consoles have just recently gotten into.
As far as no real plug and play? What was the last PC you used a 486? If I could buy an xbox for $200 add a keyboard and mouse plus my 19" monitor and it would play age of kings on the net then I would switch in a hearbeat |
16 August 2002, 02:45 | #47 |
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heh heh!
Nope, I used a PIII last. But I prefer my Gamecube for games. |
16 August 2002, 03:47 | #48 | |||||
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Sorry, I HAD to fix your message with proper quotes. It was unreadable.
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What types of games are you referring to anyway? FPS, RTS, and that's it?. Billions of dollars invested in expensive hardware that lets me play only two types of games? Sorry but I rather spend 400 dollars in a Playstation 2 or Gamecube, with its much bigger array of games. I want diversity. Even my $99 GBA gives me more diversity than what a PC can. With just four buttons. Fuck the keyboard, I'm a gamer. The keyboard is for typing a letter to grandma, not for playing. (read: jaguar "joypad") Quote:
And the cornflake is right, plug and play is bollocks. My friend has a DV cam and Windows XP doesn't fucking recognize it. Plug and Die, more like. |
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16 August 2002, 03:54 | #49 |
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Excellent reply, Akira! Knock 'em dead, kid! |
16 August 2002, 04:06 | #50 |
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I am Twistin' Ghost's padawan
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16 August 2002, 05:28 | #51 |
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@Akira, you said: TOOL in that reply, as in I am one
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16 August 2002, 05:32 | #52 |
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This is in reply to Akira
Aparently Akira thinks that everybody should like the games he likes and is stupid to like anything not on a console. He also thinks his point is more valid the more "fucks" he puts in his message. I like the age of empires series (rts) and you cant play it on any console. If thats not the type of game you like thats fine with me, but get all pissy when somebody has a different preference then you. If the game cost me $2000 in computer equipment to play it then thats fine with me because thats the kind of game I like to play and I have the money to pay for it. If you wanted a Mac so bad why do you have a PC? As fas as the $4000 computers way back when the DID cost that much or close to it complete with basic software and a monitor/printer. Some macs used to cost alot more then that, and the top of the line g4's will cost that much if you buy a complete package today with large LCD monitor printer software etc. And no I wasnt talking about the A1, you should have asked if you were not clear instead of assuming. Tell your freind to read the box on his plug and play device to see if it is compatible with his hardware. Would you get pissy with amiga hardware if your AGA game didnt run on an A500 system? I dont understand why you would be unhappy that your neighbor doesnt use 100% of his computers potential, some kind of envy going on there? IF I buy a porshe because I like the look of the car am I a bad person because I dont race it using it to its full potential? "Fuck the keyboard, I'm a gamer. The keyboard is for typing a letter to grandma, not for playing. (read: jaguar "joypad") I am a gamer" I guess a gamer like you must have had one hell of a time with the Zork series of early computer games, oh wait they are not games because they require a keyboard.. let me call the original makers and bithc them out using curse words because their game didnt fall under YOUR definition of a game. I custom build my pc's with quality parts to do what I want them to do and have no problems getting any of my equipment to run and stay running. To me an OS should just interface the hardware I have to the software I want to work with and make it easy to get to, thats it. I dont even want to be thinking about my OS, I just want to get the work done or play my game. I have pc's mac's consoles, retro systems because each has their own specific strongpoint and each has its weakness. There is no single platform that can do everything I want the best way it can be done and computers have been a longtime hobby for me. I responded to these threads because I wanted to hear other people opinions on a subject, not to hear people thumping a bible like their way is the only way and others are crazy for not using the system they believe is the one true system. |
16 August 2002, 06:30 | #53 | |
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16 August 2002, 06:38 | #54 |
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I once said that the "popularization" (is this a valid word: D) of computers was a bad thing, and this gets more and more true.
I understand you want your OS to just interface you with the hardware (That's what's an OS is made for ), but this doesn't mean you want the OS to TELL how the machine to behave. I want my OS to interface me to the hardware, yet I want the machine to behave the way I want. You never think about your OS? And when you get blue screens, you think in what? Zork is a text-adventure, that's why it uses the keyboard. You must be too dumb and didn't understand what Akira meant. If you take a look at the PS2 joypad, you'll see it has a digital input device, 10 buttons and 2 analogue devices. That's more than suficient to control any game (The 2 analogue sticks are better than a mouse for gaming anyday) . The keyboard isn't and never was meant to be a gaming device. And like Akira said, I can't understand why someone would expend big money in PCs for gaming, when they can basically only play 2 kind of games on it. The console market is also flooded with RTSs and FPSs (If you like such boring games), but at least I can also try different kinds of games in a console. I won't even waste my time to tell about all the other advantages a console has upon a PC when talking about games. I do know LOTS of people who buys a POWERFULL computer to just do simple stuff. And I know why this makes Akira angry, it's because you know there's a piece of hardware somewhere that's being underused, while HIM (or ME ) could be using it properly. And if someone wants a computer to just browse internet, do word processing and play games, buy an MSX! An MSX does all this for about 50 dollars. (Or even less, Akira or Retroman should know better ) . |
16 August 2002, 06:48 | #55 | |
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My fave genre is flight sims. Thats why I bought my Atari St. For Falcon, Knits of the Sky, etc. Being a rabid Flight sim fan, I will inform you that Amiga/Atari St flight sims don't hold a candle to my PC flight sims. Not even close. Why? I explained this before. Realism. The intense physics models and damage models, speed and VERY bitchy control needed by the truest flight sims need the hardware of my P3 800 GeForce ti 4200. I despise Windows and guarantee, were it not for my beloved flight sims I would stick to my iBook. |
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16 August 2002, 07:07 | #56 | |
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Only a handful of today's flight sims are worth anything. And the MS Combat Flight sims? Pure junk. Buggy, poor physics, IMHO, and very quirky. |
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16 August 2002, 07:27 | #57 |
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See even Fredrick who hates Intel/M$ Pc's with a passion purchased one to play 1 type of game he likes. Which is another genre that doesnt cut it on a console at the moment.
Shatterhand: I am not sure what you mean by how the OS should make the hardware behave? BTW I dont get BSOD, maybe 1 a year on win2k which runs 24/7 as a server, burner, IRC, ICQ, and a number of other things. As far as interfacing you with the hardware exactly what is that for. As long as the OS properly detects your devices and works well enough with your aplications what is there to interface? I dont boot up a machine to play with an interface each day, its to work on multiple aplications. If you have never played age of kings by microsoft on the PC (and from the sound of it you have not) then dont tell me a joypad brand xxx with 6 buttons is the controller I need for that system. AOK is a 2 handed games where the keyboard is used for command while at the same time the mouse is used for selecting movement, units, groupings etc. You cant do that very well on any game controller I ever seen. And for the 3rd time AOK doesnt exist on a console that I know of, so quit telling me the game I want is better on a system that doesnt have it! And you have no idea why people buy the computers they do, maybe somebody has to bring home files for CAD once a year and needs the rendering power of a state of the art computers while the rest of the time they just do email on it. All I get from you and Akira on that topic is ENVY for something somebody else has and you dont. If a millionaire purchased a supercomputer just to type 3 lines of code into it once and lock it away forever good for him. That computer would not exist if he didnt buy it, and if he gets bored with it then it will be alot cheaper to buy it slightly used on ebay. The more computers people buy make it cheaper for the rest of us to get one (the more of a part you make the cheaper you can sell that part). Most people want new computers with a warranty, cant get a new MSX machine at best buy with 1 year same as cash can you? Do you want to support everybody who takes you up on getting a used MSX computer for email but knows nothing about it and doesnt have the software or manual? And there are alot of games that used the keyboard for typing in commands besides the Zork series, like Ultima series to name one. Keyboards were used for gaming before computers were cheap enough to bring home. |
16 August 2002, 07:50 | #58 | ||||||||
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Always, always, when I bash M$, the M$ loving part gets pissed and starts insulting. I have not insulted you in my post at all.. Oh well..
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Anyway, that's not what I meant, I meant that I don't see the PC as the top selling games system, that's so untrue! CONSOLES ARE! Because if you think of games, you buy a console, no? Daddy is not going to buy a $4000 PC to Jimmy for playing games, is he? No, he's going to buy a $400 PS2. Daddy's not dumb. Daddy takes care of the house's economy. Daddy is a good father. I love you daddy *smack* Quote:
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I dont wanna fight with you anymore, it's boring already. I didn't want it to get like this, I never insulted you. Let me go back to some pixelwork on the Classic II. |
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16 August 2002, 07:59 | #59 |
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun
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My point about the MSX was just to tell that most people don't need to buy a P4 when they don't need it. Oh yeah, and everytime I can talk about the MSX , I do it
I know what many of my friends buy computers for. And I can assure you they aren't using And of course, if you like to throw money in the bin, you are free to do it. I personally would like to spend my money in more usefull things. I've played AOF a few times, didn't enjoyed it too much. I personall don't like a game that needs 100 keys to be memorized. If AOF plays like Warcraft, Dune 2000, Command & Conquer and thousands of other rts i've seen before (And from what I remember, it does), it can be played in a joypad using the analogue stick for the pointer movement, two buttons for the left/right mouse buttons, and the other buttons as the shortcut keys for commands. (There are more than 8 shortcuts? I hope not....) I think AOF was ported to the N64, but I may be wrong. Command & Conquer was, and it was playable (if you like this kind of game). Konami ported lots of Microsoft games, in a very interesting agreement they had. (Microsoft says "Hey, please lemme publish a good game from you (Metal Gear Solid) on PC and we will give you all our shit games !) (That's just a joke, btw.. ) Zark and Ultima may be played on keyboard, but still the keyboard wasn't made for playing games. Anyway, those games many times aren't called "games", but "Interactive Fiction". A GAMER (What Akira claimed to be, and what I do claim to be too) will want to play EVERY kind of game he can, and today a console is better to do that than a PC. Now about the OS I must admit I haven't used Win2K too much yet, and I've heard it's more stable. But why I don't update, you may ask? Well, I have a pretty humble system (P233, 32 mbs RAM, TNT2 videocard, Creative Soundblaster 16... Not too many weird hardware, huh?). This system basically matches nearly all my needs for a PC computer, and anyway I don't have the $$$ to update it right now. I HAVE to run Win 9X. Ever tried to run Windows 2K in a system like mine? Even Win 98 isn't that fast with 32 Mbs. And that's what I hate most about Windows, it's BLOATWARE. How the hell someone could make an OS that needs SO MUCH RAM is still beyond me. And I can assure you Win9X IS crap, and Windows 3.1 also IS crap, even for its time. An OS is made to interface the user with the Hardware. If you study computer science (I am studying this ), you'll learn that's one OS definition: "It's the software made to interface the user with the hardware while managing it's resources". You would also learn that SOs are supposed to take as less system resources as possible, that they have to be trustable , they must be as small as possible, it should fit the users needs and has to be secure. Someone forgot to tell Microsoft about that Back to the point Even if you are just running apps in your computer, the OS is still interfacing you with the hardware. When you are using your CD burner, the SO is interfacing you with your burner. You tell the app to do something, and he will tell the SO to do that, and the SO will tell it to the hardware. Interface with the hardware is not just installing new drivers, it's nearly EVERYTHING you do with your computer. I didn't want to take part in this discussion because my bad english always kills me when I need to make points , but after reading all this, I had to do it |
16 August 2002, 08:04 | #60 |
Warhasneverbeensomuchfun
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Bah, Akira replied while I was doing it so.
And he did it better than me. I should shut up and only talk about games |
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