The wrong attitude over bedroom programming and legendary game developers!

[manicx]

Originally posted by S. Campbell
[B]Just as a couple of points of order - as anyone can see, I wasn't noticeably abusive in the original thread, just annoyed at someone charging (quite a lot of) money for an obvious and poor-quality ripoff of our game without so much as a credit for it. It's not a "little bit" similar to SWOS, it's almost identical. I didn't threaten anyone with anything, merely expressed entirely legitimate anger on behalf of me and the other Sensi chaps, who also strongly resent this sort of thing.

Just like Football Glory, Man Utd, and so many games that were similar to Sensible Soccer. They were all sold in the shops quite expensive back then and they were released by companies that made a lot of money. None of them mentioned that their games were similar to Kick Off 2, sorry I meant Sensible Soccer...

I didn't mention Kick Off or Dino Dini in any way whatsoever. Dino and his tiny gang of simpering Euro-fanboys took it upon themselves to barge into the thread and gratuitously bitch at me on the subject. I haven't written anything about Kick Off anywhere for about nine years, and actually only ever mentioned it in AP four or five times, in three years on the mag.

All I could see back then in AP was comments like "Sensible Soccer is the best Amiga game ever". Now, how come this be subjective when the guy who wrote this is a Sensible Software member? Also, all I could see was a constant attack (ignorance?) about the Sensible Soccer alternatives. Fact is that when you have a strong position, an editorial position in a mag in the pre-internet era, you do not use it as a privilege to abuse others. How would you react if an online mag comes up and say "SWOS is shit because Stuart Campbell was Development Director (or whatever)"? Even worse, how would you feel if you couldn't reply to such statements?

As for taking the beef about Championship Soccer up with the developer personally, his contact page SPECIFICALLY asks people to post things on the forum rather than emailing them directly to him. If you're going to whine at me, at least check your facts first.

C'mon, you can't be serious, right? What if the site was stating "If you want to contact me, take the plane and come to Germany"... This is an issue that you have to judge how important can be and take appropriate actions...

Kick Off is an ancient relic of history which only a tiny handful of obsessives still care about. It was shit 15 years ago and it's shit now. Dino is a paranoid idiot who really ought to have grown out of this sort of juvenile pouting about ONE PERSON not liking his game by now, and who really ought to wake up and smell the fact that nobody's interested in his rubbish pinball simulation any more, as is comprehensively shown by the spectacularly atrocious sales of the 20 or so different failed Kick Off-derived games released since 1989. Amiga, Spectrum, Playstation, PC, they've tried every audience out there and none of them are interested. Its time has long since passed.

As I said to you to my email, I bet you were crap in KO2 and never tried to improve in this game. Kick Off was revolutionary and IS THE BASE ON WHICH SENSIBLE SOCCER WAS STARTED and you were not even there. As for the tiny handful of obsessives you mentioned, how about our community with 1300 members? Did you visit our site to see what we mean? 15 years later, on-line Amiga mags are interested in this site, this community, the game and out tournaments. 15 years later we managed to get every single version of the game available to redistribute with the bless of Anco. Anco even released KO2002, a tribute game to KO2, with the help of the Kick Off community. And I am one of the obsessives who are trying to get this game converted to Morphos/AmigaOS, but with people like you out there, I wonder if these efforts should continue, or I should just say "It was shit, it is shit, so f*ck them"...

And as for the odd cuss-word among adult men - honestly, grow the fuck up, you lily-livered fucking pussies.

Love you all!

Thanks a lot. This man was once editor of AP. What an attitude, what an attitude.

[S. Campbell]

Originally posted by manicx
All I could see back then in AP was comments like "Sensible Soccer is the best Amiga game ever". Now, how come this be subjective when the guy who wrote this is a Sensible Software member?

You really are the world's biggest tit, aren't you? Nobody on AP worked for Sensible until two years after Sensi Soccer was released. Then I went to work for Sensible, at which point I stopped reviewing for AP. At no point did the two jobs EVER overlap.

Also, all I could see was a constant attack (ignorance?) about the Sensible Soccer alternatives.

Because we thought they were shit.

Fact is that when you have a strong position, an editorial position in a mag in the pre-internet era, you do not use it as a privilege to abuse others.

You do if you think they're shit. It was our job to protect people from wasting their money on shit games.

How would you react if an online mag comes up and say "SWOS is shit because Stuart Campbell was Development Director (or whatever)"?

Nobody EVER said that Kick Off was shit because of who wrote it. It was shit because it was shit.

Even worse, how would you feel if you couldn't reply to such statements?

We NEVER ONCE refused Dino a right to voice his opinion. The only time he ever actually wrote to us, we published the letter.

C'mon, you can't be serious, right? What if the site was stating "If you want to contact me, take the plane and come to Germany"... This is an issue that you have to judge how important can be and take appropriate actions...

The appropriate action obviously being "Do what the website guy asks people to do if they have issues or comments". If he'd demanded we come to Germany, that would obviously have been unreasonable.

As I said to you to my email, I bet you were crap in KO2 and never tried to improve in this game.

How much do you bet?

Anco even released KO2002, a tribute game to KO2, with the help of the Kick Off community.

Sell a lot of copies, did it?

And I am one of the obsessives who are trying to get this game converted to Morphos/AmigaOS, but with people like you out there, I wonder if these efforts should continue, or I should just say "It was shit, it is shit, so f*ck them"...

I can answer that question for you if you like.

[Peanutuk]

Can't we ban this tweed hat?

Is Stuart Campbell any use to the public any more, that is now that his opinion is quite obviously no more valid than anyone elses. It's a little more difficult to impress your opinion upon people when you are not writting for a national magazine , and I see no reason why Stuart's opion is worth more than any one else's.

Still , happy days...

[Amiga1992]

Shit, shit, shit, shit, and tits.

I'm sorry but I was never a follower of AP, however The One bashed all non-Sensi footy games a shitload, and I don't see anyone attacking The One ex-members.

[S. Campbell]

Originally posted by Peanutuk
It's a little more difficult to impress your opinion upon people when you are ["not", presumably - SC] writting for a national magazine

Hmm. SIX different forums all now ranting on about what I think about Kick Off, as a result of me NOT MENTIONING IT AT ALL while discussing something else entirely. Yes, I seem to be having REAL trouble getting anyone to notice my opinion...

[KombatSanta]

Uhm... How old are you anyways mr Campbell? You are behaiving even worse than those under 15 here...

If you begin to rant about things like "stop ripping us off", then prepare to take the consequences.

[S. Campbell]

"The consequences" being a few silly Kick Off fanboys whining at me? Oh no! I surrender!

[BippyM]

Does it REALLY matter? Does it?

Lets be honest KO is ancient, SWOS is ancient both had their followers, both had their die-hard fans!!

The programmer of that footy game should have acknowledged sensiible software and/or Sensi-soccer simple!!!

Anyone attacking Mr Campbell over HIS opinions and views is being tad moronic.. Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions, and we are not all going to agree all the time, but to let it degenerate into a name calling farce is just a tad bit pathetic (this goes for you Stuart aswell!!)

Stuart has his opinion and he voiced it where the developer told him to voice it!

It has since boiled over into another forum completely un-related to the topic that started it and has been blown out of proportion!!

Maybe its time everyone grew up and smelt the coffee...

anyway time for me to bow out of this thread, it really is pointless now, and I'd much rather we talked about Amigas and emulation..

So Stuart how are your feelings towards the Amiga anyway?
Any hazy nostalgia and good times you wanna share
Fancy doing an interview for APoV 2? I'm sure Cody would love the exclsive

[P-J]

Originally posted by bippym
Lets be honest KO is ancient, SWOS is ancient both had their followers, both had their die-hard fans!!

I'd say, for me at least, Sensi has stood the test of time, whereas Kick Off has aged considerably.

My impression is undoubtedly different to others though.

[kolorabi]

SWOS is the best football game ever.

Having said that, CS does not play exactly like SWOS. Given the subject matter of the game, it's no wonder that it looks a bit like Sensi, or any football game ever, for that matter.

So what concepts exactly did the CS creators "steal" from Sensible Software?

It seems to me that the two major things CS has in common with SWOS are:

1. It's a football game.
2. It uses a zoomed-out, top-down perspective.

Did Sensible Software invent any of these concepts?

[P-J]

Originally posted by kolorabi
SWOS is the best football game ever.

Having said that, CS does not play exactly like SWOS. Given the subject matter of the game, it's no wonder that it looks a bit like Sensi, or any football game ever, for that matter.

So what concepts exactly did the CS creators "steal" from Sensible Software?

It seems to me that the two major things CS has in common with SWOS are:

1. It's a football game.
2. It uses a zoomed-out, top-down perspective.

Did Sensible Software invent any of these concepts?

This discussion has already been 'had' on the CS forums, check there or we'll have a bit of a flame-war on our hands.

[Peanutuk]

the thread is locked, it started off with a valid thread but it seems Rev Campbell can't

A) take a joke , or
B) resisit from analysing every last word said by anyone who disagrees with him.

Please let''s just leave it here.