Why are platform games on the Amiga really mediocre?

[TCD]

Originally Posted by rare_j

Only one of the best platformers ever... and only on Amiga unless I'm mistaken!!

It was ported to other plarforms aswell : http://www.mobygames.com/game/fire-ice
Nonetheless it's a really good platformer

[waal]

And don't forget the great Giana sisters who are far more sex-appealing than Mario !

[Adropac2]

Nah Giana Sisters is good fun but the pinacle of 2d platforming quite comfortably belongs to Nintendo and Mario

Mind you it makes no difference all this talk of what's better for what machine.I wouldn't have even thought of trading my Amiga for Snes or Megadrive - i owned these machines certainly and i loved my time with special games like Zelda Past and Contra etc, but my A500 and then A1200 was something more than what i got from the console experience

Just the thrill of booting up and waiting with anticipation what game or demo etc you were about to see from your Amiga was something special.Sure you had to wait but this really was part of the charm in a way we wont ever see again - much like the C64 in fact.This was always much more a special time than shoving a Cart into console and playing - not that this could in any way be called a weakness for console play of course.Actually i do remember the VCS having a bit more soul(at least to me) so i'm not sure what that means then

I loved all sides of gaming at the time though so i did spend a good amount of time playing on all these fine machines, and although i have the fondest memories of say Castlevania4, Zelda Past(probably the most perfect game ever), and Starfox etc, nothing really comes close to my treasured memories when using the Amiga

It couldn't really keep up with what console games provided but then we had a distinctly different type of games such as Deutros, Damocles, StuntCar, F18, Carrier Command, Turrican2, etc and this i think can just as easily be argued was a better deal

Glad i didn't miss out on the Amiga

[AB Positive]

Now don't let people think that somehow I'm going against the Amiga here, as I'm not. Truth be told I haven't played a lot of 'platformers' other than Giana Sisters and Rodland... of which Rodland is awesome.


However, I'm just stating. Sometimes some people nail it, and Sega/Nintendo nailed the platformer genre (Sonic/Mario). Up as jump is hard for a platformer when you're used to the two-button running-jump move. (and really, DASH jumping is what makes Mario so good, not so much the jump button itself)


Still... try to do WizKid on a console and it fails miserably. Turrican as well. The Amiga is top notch and awesome. It does what it does great.

It's ok at platformers... Nintendo just happened to knock the genre out of the park.

[Galahad/FLT]

Originally Posted by rare_j

Did anyone mention Fire and Ice yet?
Only one of the best platformers ever... and only on Amiga unless I'm mistaken!!

In post number 2 in this very thread !

And it wasn't Amiga original, but was Amiga first.

[AB Positive]

Auch... how could I not mention my favorite platformer on the Amiga, and to my knowledge only has an ST port...

Harlequin~!


This may be the one game where Up or a Jump Button makes zero difference to gameplay. It's just done so well.... I want to play some now, lol!

[Marlon]

Originally Posted by pbareges

- Rick Dangerous is totally amazing and the mix of puzzle/precision/arcade is really unique

Uniquely CRAP, maybe. It was nothing more than an unfair memory test and I utterly hate it.

I agree the Amiga has many great platformers; Ruff 'n' Tumble, Assassin, Switchblade II, Lionheart and, of course, Harlequin spring to mind.

[DDNI]

Surprised that robocod has not been mentioned....

[Retro-Nerd]

Because it's really mediocre? I wonder why nobody mentioned BC Kid, far better than the PC Engine original.

[Hungry Horace]

the last few posts (and quotes) really do typify my point about it being purely opinion / taste. This thread could just go back-&-forth forever. No one will ever be "right" either.


for the record - I too like Robocod.

[Antiriad]

Saying the Amiga had no decent platformers would be wrong, but the Mega Drive and SNES had many more. But I would say the Amiga didn't have decent beat-em-ups.

As has been noted by other esteemed members, the Amiga's strength was its versatility.

[Retro-Nerd]

the last few posts (and quotes) really do typify my point about it being purely opinion / taste. This thread could just go back-&-forth forever. No one will ever be "right" either.

Sure, the original question is already a subjective POV.

[AB Positive]

Originally Posted by Antiriad

Saying the Amiga had no decent platformers would be wrong, but the Mega Drive and SNES had many more. But I would say the Amiga didn't have decent beat-em-ups.

As has been noted by other esteemed members, the Amiga's strength was its versatility.

this may be a truism since fighters usually required more than two buttons... but then again the Neo Geo Pocket showed you could definitely do a great 2 button fighter.

And how dare I forget BC Kid - being a PC Engine fan as well and a game done beautifully on both platforms. This game could be a good example to shut up the "Up being jump is crap" crowd. And by that I mean of course "Americans"

[switchblade]

For some reason, I LOL'd real hard at the "my opinion=fact" tag.

[petran]

Well when the NES and Master System came and a few years later the Mega Drive and the Famicom, marketing played a huge part in promoting such titles

Of course I too finished all Mario games on the NES and Castlevania 3 and certainly no Amiga game could have reached such a quality like Konami games.

It is not that the Amiga had bad games per se, it is just that the Japanese games were so much better.

But it was also due to the fact of the clash of different game cultures at that time. The Japanese proved to be more innovative regarding the platform genre in the game consoles. They even had success with the Sharp x68000 when they ported arcade games to the home market.

But truth be told, I had difficulty searching and remembering my two favourite platformers: Mike the Magic Dragon and Warlock's Quest. Just a few people made those games, while many more were involved in developing and promoting the NES titles.

[radon_22]

Originally Posted by petran

Well when the NES and Master System came and a few years later the Mega Drive and the Famicom, marketing played a huge part in promoting such titles

Of course I too finished all Mario games on the NES and Castlevania 3 and certainly no Amiga game could have reached such a quality like Konami games.

It is not that the Amiga had bad games per se, it is just that the Japanese games were so much better.

Bingo. You hit two points that it seem everyone who gets in this discussion forgets:

1) Japananese programmers had a much different approach to games than European ones. Even in side-scrollers SMUPS, there's a distinct different feel based on where it was made. It's not really that one was better than the other, it's just that the approach was different.

2) The Amiga's biggest competition was *not* the Genesis/SNES! The NES and Master System were its contemporaries. The Genesis wasn't available in Europe until '90 and the SNES in '92. The NES came out in '86, the Master System came out in '87, whereas the Amiga came out in '85.

[Retro-Nerd]

Of course the Genesis/SNES were Amiga competitors, both are 16-bit machines. The NES/SMS consoles were 8-bit computer competitors, especially for the C64.

[petran]

Originally Posted by radon_22

Bingo. You hit two points that it seem everyone who gets in this discussion forgets:

1) Japannese programmers had a much different approach to games than European ones. Even in side-scrollers SMUPS, there's a distinct different feel based on where it was made. It's not really that one was better than the other, it's just that the approach was different.

That is what the creators of Apidya had in mind

http://www.shmups.com/reviews/apidya/index.html

In the early 1990s, a new software company was founded in Germany. It was called Kaiko and sported Chris Hülsbeck, the composer of many great and memorable game soundtracks (including those of the Turrican games), as its most famous member. Kaiko set out on a mission which was very unusual for a European company, at least at that time: To give their software the special look and feel only games of Japanese origin used to have. Remember that this happened at a time when anime-style graphics were virtually unknown in the west and were just starting to gain a little popularity among those who imported games for their Mega Drives and PC-Engines.

Kaiko succeeded well in accomplishing their task. If you wouldn't know better, you'd bet that the three official Kaiko releases (the cute puzzlers "Gem'X" and "Super Gem'Z" and, of course, the shmup "Apidya") were conversions of japanese arcade games. Only they weren't. They all were original developments. This being shmups.com, Apidya naturally interests us the most, so let's talk about it a bit.

First a few words on the title screen. In addition to the game's name we can see a big "II" there. This has caused quite a lot of confusion back in the day. Rumours went that Apidya was actually the sequel to a mysterious unknown Japanese shooter.
Well, to stop those rumours once and for all: According to an interview with Mr. Hülsbeck, the purpose of putting in the "II" was to actually cause that kind of confusion. This game is not called "Apidya II", nor is there a predecessor. Sadly, Apidya is the only one of its kind.

But what a game it is. It's really on par with any of the best Japanese shmups of that time and shows what amazing stuff you could do when you knew how to use the Amiga's abilities properly.

[antonvaltaz]

Originally Posted by radon_22

2) The Amiga's biggest competition was *not* the Genesis/SNES! The NES and Master System were its contemporaries.

When I got my first Amiga the Mega Drive was already out in Europe, and the SNES was on it's way, so I guess it depends on your perspective!

[TCD]

Originally Posted by petran

It is not that the Amiga had bad games per se, it is just that the Japanese games were so much better.

Originally Posted by radon_22

It's not really that one was better than the other, it's just that the approach was different.

I really find the second quote much more appropiate for the simple reason that 'better' is always very much a subjective thing. Look at the tags btw