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Old 13 June 2019, 01:04   #1
studio460
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Want to run AmigaOS 4.1—a few questions . . .

Would really like to run AmigaOS 4.1, mainly for its TrueType font-support and ability to run legacy Amiga graphics apps. A few questions . . .

So, I guess there's just three options as of June 2019:

• AmigaOne X5000 ($2,168 as I configured).
• MIST FPGA 1.4 in clear or metal box from amigaonthelake.com ($239). [CORRECTION—THIS IS 68K NOT PPC]
• Amiga A1200 + Blizzard 603e PPC/SCSI board (expensive!).

Questions:

• AmigaOS 4.1 only runs on PowerPC emulators, right?
• Do these PPC-emulator/AmigaOS 4.1 machines allow different resolutions on the same screen like original AGA chipsets do?
• Do you need to install anything other than AmigaOS 4.1 to make it work?
• Do you need to buy AmigaOS 4.1 separately in addition to a MIST?
• Is there a MIST-specific forum somewhere?

So, in general, how are MISTs working for legacy graphics apps like SCALA and Broadcast Titler, etc.? What are some of the biggest downsides to MIST? Lastly, there's probably no way to run software that only works on Kickstart 1.3 ROMs on a MIST running AmigaOS 4.1, right?

Last edited by studio460; 13 June 2019 at 17:53.
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Old 13 June 2019, 15:34   #2
Retro1234
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Unless I missed something OS4 will not run on MIST as you can see the HardWare is very expensive but you can try it under emulation on Mac or PC.

There are Turbo like accelerator like Vampire they don't run OS4 but are very powerful and reasonably priced
There's YT videos of Scala running on Vampire.


There's also the DraCo or Casablanca this was a system just for video editing etc it can't run classic games really and not for OS4, I don't know much about it but it was just for video editing effects and video titling.

OS4 could probably run some software made for OS1.3 as long as it was OS friendly and didn't use the classic Amiga Graphics chips but it not really for classic software it's a niche market for people who like the Amiga Operating System but it missed it's market.

Last edited by Retro1234; 13 June 2019 at 16:40.
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Old 13 June 2019, 16:54   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studio460 View Post
Would really like to run AmigaOS 4.1, mainly for its TrueType font-support and ability to run legacy Amiga graphics apps. A few questions . . .
While the font engine in OS4 is quite nice (compared to OS3 anyway...), you can install TTF library on OS3 and get similar capability there. It will be a bit slow on original hardware, but it works reasonably well.

Quote:
So, I guess there's just three options as of June 2019:

• AmigaOne X5000 ($2,168 as I configured).
• MIST FPGA 1.4 in clear or metal box from amigaonthelake.com ($239).
• Amiga A1200 + Blizzard 603e PPC/SCSI board (expensive!).
There are other options for running OS4:

- WinUAE and OS4 Classic (cheapest option but not great performance-wise)
- 2nd-hand OS4 machine like an A1-XE, Sam440, Sam460/A1-500 (they do come up for sale occasionally, and will be cheaper and faster than a BlizzardPPC for an A1200)

And to answer your questions:
Quote:
AmigaOS 4.1 only runs on PowerPC emulators, right?
As said, OS4 is PPC-only, and as such, won't run on the MiST, Vampire or any 68k-based hardware. There are PPC emulators around - WinUAE has support but performance is much slower than a dedicated system. There is also early support for emulating a Sam460 in QEMU which might have improved performance over WinUAE, but it's not quite there yet as an easy-to-use setup.

Quote:
Do these PPC-emulator/AmigaOS 4.1 machines allow different resolutions on the same screen like original AGA chipsets do?
Sort of. Given that they use standard PC graphics cards, they don't support different resolutions in hardware the way the Amiga does. But there is support for rendering different resolutions on different "surfaces" that the GPU can mix on screen. The end result is similar - being able to drag screens down to reveal different resolution screens behind.

Quote:
Do you need to install anything other than AmigaOS 4.1 to make it work?
4.1 is all you need to run it on PPC hardware. To run it on a classic or an emulator, it also needs a bootloader that's installed from OS 3.1.

Quote:
Lastly, there's probably no way to run software that only works on Kickstart 1.3 ROMs on a MIST running AmigaOS 4.1, right?
Ignoring the MiST aspect, if the software goes through the OS, it should work on OS 4 too. Software that *only* works on 1.3 and doesn't work on OS3 is very unlikely to work on OS4 either - if it supported the OS API it should also work on OS2 and OS3.

OS4 does come with a classic emulator built in that lets you run an OS3 (or OS 1.x) environment in a window or screen, but it's not as fast or as flexible as WinUAE.
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Old 13 June 2019, 17:25   #4
studio460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
Unless I missed something OS4 will not run on MIST . . .
Doh! My bad. So MIST is an FPGA 68K-only emulator, then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
There are Turbo like accelerator like Vampire they don't run OS4 but are very powerful and reasonably priced
There's YT videos of Scala running on Vampire . . .
That's very cool! That's the exact application I wish to run. Good to know Scala works on a Vampire 68K-emulator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro1234 View Post
. . . OS4 could probably run some software made for OS1.3 as long as it was OS friendly and didn't use the classic Amiga Graphics chips but it not really for classic software it's a niche market for people who like the Amiga Operating System but it missed it's market.
Yeah, Magellan 1.1 was so picky. It ran fine on 1.3; I mean it's just a database for Chrissakes! Maybe it was something else on my machine (I had a 286 Bridgeboard in my A2000HD, plus a Toaster), but after putting the 3.1 ROMs in it, my A2000HD stopped Magellan dead-cold. Thanks for all your help!

Last edited by studio460; 13 June 2019 at 18:07.
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Old 13 June 2019, 17:29   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
While the font engine in OS4 is quite nice (compared to OS3 anyway...), you can install TTF library on OS3 and get similar capability there. It will be a bit slow on original hardware, but it works reasonably well . . .
Wow! Thanks for that very detailed reply, Daedalus! Very much appreciate all the help! That's great to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
There are other options for running OS4:

- WinUAE and OS4 Classic (cheapest option but not great performance-wise)
- 2nd-hand OS4 machine like an A1-XE, Sam440, Sam460/A1-500 (they do come up for sale occasionally, and will be cheaper and faster than a BlizzardPPC for an A1200)
Performance is more important to me than economy, so I can probably take WinUAE off the table for now. But the prices people are asking for the Blizzard 603e seem pretty high. I'll probably opt for the FPGA-powered Vampire V4 standalone when it comes out—it's a 68K emulator, so no AmigaOS 4.1 compatibility, unfortunately, but damn, it looks cool!

I might be interested in an AmigaOne 500 if I could find one, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Sort of. Given that they use standard PC graphics cards, they don't support different resolutions in hardware the way the Amiga does. But there is support for rendering different resolutions on different "surfaces" that the GPU can mix on screen. The end result is similar - being able to drag screens down to reveal different resolution screens behind.
Hmmm . . . interesting. I guess I'll be hanging on to a genuine Amiga, the A1200 I just bought, regardless of which way I go next. Love that AGA multi-res action!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Ignoring the MiST aspect, if the software goes through the OS, it should work on OS 4 too. Software that *only* works on 1.3 and doesn't work on OS3 is very unlikely to work on OS4 either - if it supported the OS API it should also work on OS2 and OS3.
Yeah, again, Magellan 1.1 seems so fragile, I doubt it will run in any emulation. As soon as I get my A1200, I'll experiment with some of the other suggestions for running 1.3 compatibility. I mean, at least I'll be attempting it on a genuine Amiga. Thanks again for all your help!

Last edited by studio460; 13 June 2019 at 18:08.
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Old 14 June 2019, 10:14   #6
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Okay, so here's the deal. I'm mainly planning to run multimedia/productivity applications. Here's the list (no games):

• AmigaVision.
• Scala Multimedia 400.
• Superbase.
• Hyperbook.
• FinalCalc.
• Bars & Pipes Professional.
• Emerald Intelligence's Magellan 1.1
• Directory Opus.

Any anyone tested any of the above in an Amiga 4.1 machine?
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Old 14 June 2019, 13:50   #7
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I'm 95% sure that Scala won't work on OS4 since it depends on the custom chips for its graphical effects. Directory Opus probably works fine, but there are updated open source versions that do work perfectly well. I personally use Filer, which gives DOpus 5-style listers integrated with Workbench.

Final Calc, being a standard productivity application, I would expect to work just fine under OS4, but I haven't tried it.

Bars & Pipes has an OS4-specific version - not sure if the original works or if it's too tied to the hardware.

And the others I just don't know...

You can essentially apply that to MorphOS as well. Essentially, if it works on OS3 with a graphics card, it will likely work under OS4 and MOS.
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Old 14 June 2019, 14:04   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studio460 View Post
• Bars & Pipes Professional.
Any anyone tested any of the above in an Amiga 4.1 machine?
I've tested Bars & Pipes on AmigaOne and it worked pretty nice. Here is a video:

[ Show youtube player ]

I used a USB2MIDI interface (~5$ from ebay) and it worked pretty nice.

Directory Opus works pretty nice as well. I used mostly DOpus 4 for my projects, since I like it more than DOpus 5.
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Old 14 June 2019, 17:54   #9
studio460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
I'm 95% sure that Scala won't work on OS4 since it depends on the custom chips for its graphical effects . . .
Thanks for all that info! Well, if it won't run AGA apps, then AmigaOS 4.1 won't be much use to me. I was interested in MorphOS since G5 towers are so cheap these days and the UI does look beautiful. But it doesn't seem like I'd have much use for that either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Directory Opus probably works fine . . .
Woohoo! (Just kidding!)
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Old 14 June 2019, 17:55   #10
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I've tested Bars & Pipes on AmigaOne and it worked pretty nice. Here is a video . . .
Very cool! Thanks for posting that!
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