Introducing ACA 1221 Low Cost Accelerator At AmigaKit.com - Page 3

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 19:32

you would have to be pretty stupid to pay £140 for a ram card anyway.thats why i cant understand the comparison we all know those prices are hiked up.

any of the aca's are cheap enough even the higher spec ones that arnt really all that high spec,thats why i dont really feel like being someones guinea pig price wise.
theres just no real need for it.

Arnie · 21 July 2015, 19:39

You say any of the ACA's are cheap enough! I think that's part of the problem here. Peoples perception of what's affordable. I personally haven't got £145 for an ACA1230.
I would like some extra ram but (and yes, that example I posted is OTT) you don't see many options available at an affordable price these days.

The ACA1221 is reasonably affordable to me with the potential to unlock it later. That's the attraction for me.

ovale · 21 July 2015, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnie

@ovale

No, not exactly. All the features are already on the card but are locked. To unlock the features that you want you buy an extra licence for those features.

I understand the HW is present. I'm saying it is not tested above the minimum specs.
He has written "...especially the cost of testing if a CPU is overclocking-stable - correct.".

So the savings comes from standardization, less testing, ability to use 2nd choice memory. Then it is just a game of probablity and product placement.

I think it is really clever. It would be interesting if he can comment about probability of not having a feature work after unlock. This would prove or not my guessing.

amigakit.com · 21 July 2015, 20:02

The problem is that if you are not a regular in the Amiga community like all of us, you may know no better and pay the over the odds prices on Ebay for a 25 year old 1990s 8mb RAM card with NO warranty and NOT PCMCIA compatible. I have seen many examples of this, when these users can get better for less if they knew about it.

Would it not be better to buy a £57 new design accelerator with 9 mb of RAM, PCMCIA compatible with full 68020 with full warranty and support your favourite Amiga dealer too

I am celebrating this great news!

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 20:04

fair enough bud.

but,what im saying is fair and the cards are cheap.

ive paid a lot more for accelerator cards,these in comparison are really cheap.
but,thats not the point.
the extra to unlock everything really isnt alot of money...so why not just unlock it to start with.

Retrofan · 21 July 2015, 20:05

+1 to AmigaKit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy bates

the extra to unlock everything really isnt alot of money...so why not just unlock it to start with.

Wider spectrum of buyers.

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

+1 to AmigaKit.

Wider spectrum of buyers.

maybe,time will tell i suppose.

or maybe less people will buy them,the unlock feature isnt something i would buy into.

Arnie · 21 July 2015, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy bates

the extra to unlock everything really isnt alot of money...so why not just unlock it to start with.

That's my point. To you, it's not a lot of money, to me, it nearly doubles the price of the card. I personally couldn't afford it if it was unlocked.

Retrofan · 21 July 2015, 20:19

And also, we all speaking here are old amigans in the forum. Think in new customers, those who like the Amiga but don't want to spend much.

I started with an 8MB ramboard...

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnie

That's my point. To you, it's not a lot of money, to me, it nearly doubles the price of the card. I personally couldn't afford it if it was unlocked.

thats a fair point.

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

And also, we all speaking here are old amigans in the forum. Think in new customers, those who like the Amiga but don't want to spend much.

I started with an 8MB ramboard...

im an old amigan,i started with 1230 when i got a 1200.

i understand what people are saying,i just dont like the unlock thing.

MrFluffy · 21 July 2015, 20:30

Interesting, its copying others and I have encountered similar already.

For example, the r-link equipped renault clio I bought my wife as her runaround car will absolutely be the last renault ever that darkens our fleet when it comes for replacement in a year or so.
While it was in for dealer servicing (done just to keep warantee terms valid and the resale values up, dealers suck at caring about their workmanship normally) I was told the option was paying a significant sum for new gps maps to restore functionality after someone hit reset and put the car back to defaults with no map data etc.
I opted not to do so, and after some tinkering the clio is runing menarus firmware on its infotainment system as a alternative os instead, I can put my own maps on there, and while I was at it I turned on the software disabled rearview camera option and added the 5e camera itself just because I could, and Ive since helped other owners through reflashing and doing same to their cars the same with glee.
Is it about saving money? not really if I add up my time to research and implement the hack to get round it vs the cost of the maps themselves I'm well out of pocket, I'm not saving anything helping the other owners as I would not accept any form of payment for that, its more a sense of injustice as I felt a bit violated as a (not) valued customer having spent a large sum buying the car to start with and it felt like a poor business model by them because options are supposed to cost more because they cost more to manufacture, and the greedy bastards have already been paid for the data that it was delivered with. It just feels dishonest no matter how I try to compute it and I won't support them with my custom in future.

You are free to price and follow as you see fit of course, but these are my personal experiences and reaction to a similar pricing model.

kolla · 21 July 2015, 20:43

People who don't like the locked features can pretend they are not there. And then they can surprise themselves with a feature when suddenly some money shows up. I also read the locked features can be "tested" 10 times without code. A very low spec cheap card that can be upgraded to a very low spec cheap card is what I see here. As for hacking it, I am sure it will be done, one card after the other.

Personally the only usecase I have for such a card, was if there was an ACA for CD32 expansion, I would really appreciate that. My A1200 systems already have Blizzard cards.

Arnie · 21 July 2015, 20:51

Would it make a cheaper upgrade for ACA500 owners?

Amiga1992 · 21 July 2015, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retrofan

Wider spectrum of buyers.

How? Just because it's cheaper?
People who don't usually buy this stuff will suddenly would?
I think the market here is very narrow and it is always the same people (us) buying this sort of peripheral. And we are used to pay certain prices for things. Not necessarily ramped up prices, but this kinda new technology for old computers is usually going to be "expensive".

People who are cheap and don't want to spend more than 70 quid total on a system will not go out and buy this either, probably, just to get a small RAM upgrade and maybe a 2Mhz speed increase, all of which will turn their classic Amigas less compatible. That kinda people are more happy with a cheap GOTEK solution to run all games as they were intended than ramping up RAM or speed to maybe use WHDLoad or Fblit or whatever the hell.

roy bates · 21 July 2015, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnie

Would it make a cheaper upgrade for ACA500 owners?

i imagine it would,its the cheapest aca card ive seen.

then again,i think there is another aca500 coming? not sure i heard it right though.

Mrs Beanbag · 21 July 2015, 21:37

i really don't understand what all the fuss is about... hardware manufacturers have been doing this sort of thing since forever. AMD, Intel &c all do it, it's called "product binning". When they introduce a new line of CPUs, they haven't designed and made different ones to run at different speeds. They produce loads all the same and then see how fast they will go, because manufacturing is always a bit unpredictable and sometimes chips have faults. Sometimes features that don't work properly are disabled. AMD's triple core CPUs were really quad-cores with one of the cores disabled. Sometimes it hasn't anything to do with the manufacturing, sometimes they just sell fast chips as slow ones, or perfectly functional quad cores as triple cores, just to fill the demand for parts in that performance bracket and hence maximise their sales. They know that there are people who will pay silly prices for the fastest thing there is, and that there are people who are happy with a budget PC.

Sometimes you can identify the good overclockers by batch number, because a batch of fast CPUs has been sold as slow CPUs for essentially no technical reason. You can also get motherboards with "core unlocker" functionality in the BIOS, so if you have a triple-core CPU you can get a fourth core "for free" if you're lucky.

There's nothing mysterious or new in any of this. And the idea that it is terrible to buy something "crippled" is quite irrational... you pay how much you think it's worth to get something that does so much. Why does it make any difference if there's some extra silicon on the board or not? It's not sitting there bad-mouthing you behind your back.

Arnie · 21 July 2015, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akira

People who are cheap and don't want to spend more than 70 quid total on a system will not go out and buy this either.

Well that's where you are wrong. I'm "that kinda people" and although I have a Gotek, I would also like some affordable fastmem.

eXeler0 · 21 July 2015, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy bates

im an old amigan,i started with 1230 when i got a 1200.

i understand what people are saying,i just dont like the unlock thing.

@roy_bates
Is this really something worth getting upset with? Frankly, I dont see the problem.
First of all, Jens said its an "experimental feature", this unlock thing. If it works well. he will use it in future products, if not well, then this may be the first and the last card with that feature.

You are saying that why not sell the damn thing fully unlocked for €40 more.. well by doing that, he is removing choice for some ppl. Why would that be better than having the option to buy something affordable and unlock at a later date (like when they have €40 lying around or something)?
And the way I see it, its fully possible for a retailer to sell a "unlocked" edition for the €40 more where they already put the unlock code in for you.

Personally, I totally get why Jens is doing this, I dont always agree with how he does things (Amiga reloaded, anyone? :-) ), but this one seems like a concept worth testing and I see no real reason to complain.

Paul_s · 21 July 2015, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy bates

im an old amigan,i started with 1230 when i got a 1200.

i understand what people are saying,i just dont like the unlock thing.

Something I was wondering... what happens if the end user has paid the 40 euros to unlock the card... you then decide to add the RTC option... the RTC option then detects Jen's birthday and it disables the card asking you to pay another 40 euros (i.e. subscription!?)

Personally speaking I don't think this model of 'marketing' will appeal to many.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
A new, low-cost CD32 Expansion?	Rebel-CD32	Hardware mods	270	12 September 2017 22:03
low cost pcb production	emufan	support.Hardware	3	09 August 2013 18:03
2x New Low Cost Turbo Card for A600 "Fúria"	venox	Amiga scene	80	14 November 2012 11:38
Super Low Cost Amiga CF Card Reader	AmigaMAD75	support.Hardware	5	26 January 2010 18:41

21 July 2015, 19:32	#41
roy bates Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: birmingham Age: 55 Posts: 2,827	you would have to be pretty stupid to pay £140 for a ram card anyway.thats why i cant understand the comparison we all know those prices are hiked up. any of the aca's are cheap enough even the higher spec ones that arnt really all that high spec,thats why i dont really feel like being someones guinea pig price wise. theres just no real need for it.

21 July 2015, 19:39	#42
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	You say any of the ACA's are cheap enough! I think that's part of the problem here. Peoples perception of what's affordable. I personally haven't got £145 for an ACA1230. I would like some extra ram but (and yes, that example I posted is OTT) you don't see many options available at an affordable price these days. The ACA1221 is reasonably affordable to me with the potential to unlock it later. That's the attraction for me.

21 July 2015, 20:02	#44
amigakit.com Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: www.amigakit.com Posts: 2,015	The problem is that if you are not a regular in the Amiga community like all of us, you may know no better and pay the over the odds prices on Ebay for a 25 year old 1990s 8mb RAM card with NO warranty and NOT PCMCIA compatible. I have seen many examples of this, when these users can get better for less if they knew about it. Would it not be better to buy a £57 new design accelerator with 9 mb of RAM, PCMCIA compatible with full 68020 with full warranty and support your favourite Amiga dealer too I am celebrating this great news!

21 July 2015, 20:04	#45
roy bates Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: birmingham Age: 55 Posts: 2,827	fair enough bud. but,what im saying is fair and the cards are cheap. ive paid a lot more for accelerator cards,these in comparison are really cheap. but,thats not the point. the extra to unlock everything really isnt alot of money...so why not just unlock it to start with.

21 July 2015, 20:19	#49
Retrofan Ruler of the Universe Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Lanzarote/Spain Posts: 6,185	And also, we all speaking here are old amigans in the forum. Think in new customers, those who like the Amiga but don't want to spend much. I started with an 8MB ramboard...

21 July 2015, 20:30	#52
MrFluffy furtling tinkerer Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Mouhet France Posts: 55	Interesting, its copying others and I have encountered similar already. For example, the r-link equipped renault clio I bought my wife as her runaround car will absolutely be the last renault ever that darkens our fleet when it comes for replacement in a year or so. While it was in for dealer servicing (done just to keep warantee terms valid and the resale values up, dealers suck at caring about their workmanship normally) I was told the option was paying a significant sum for new gps maps to restore functionality after someone hit reset and put the car back to defaults with no map data etc. I opted not to do so, and after some tinkering the clio is runing menarus firmware on its infotainment system as a alternative os instead, I can put my own maps on there, and while I was at it I turned on the software disabled rearview camera option and added the 5e camera itself just because I could, and Ive since helped other owners through reflashing and doing same to their cars the same with glee. Is it about saving money? not really if I add up my time to research and implement the hack to get round it vs the cost of the maps themselves I'm well out of pocket, I'm not saving anything helping the other owners as I would not accept any form of payment for that, its more a sense of injustice as I felt a bit violated as a (not) valued customer having spent a large sum buying the car to start with and it felt like a poor business model by them because options are supposed to cost more because they cost more to manufacture, and the greedy bastards have already been paid for the data that it was delivered with. It just feels dishonest no matter how I try to compute it and I won't support them with my custom in future. You are free to price and follow as you see fit of course, but these are my personal experiences and reaction to a similar pricing model.

21 July 2015, 20:43	#53
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	People who don't like the locked features can pretend they are not there. And then they can surprise themselves with a feature when suddenly some money shows up. I also read the locked features can be "tested" 10 times without code. A very low spec cheap card that can be upgraded to a very low spec cheap card is what I see here. As for hacking it, I am sure it will be done, one card after the other. Personally the only usecase I have for such a card, was if there was an ACA for CD32 expansion, I would really appreciate that. My A1200 systems already have Blizzard cards.

21 July 2015, 20:51	#54
Arnie R.I.P Smudge 18-08-16 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Leicester/UK Age: 66 Posts: 3,968	Would it make a cheaper upgrade for ACA500 owners?

21 July 2015, 21:37	#57
Mrs Beanbag Glastonbridge Software Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Edinburgh/Scotland Posts: 2,243	i really don't understand what all the fuss is about... hardware manufacturers have been doing this sort of thing since forever. AMD, Intel &c all do it, it's called "product binning". When they introduce a new line of CPUs, they haven't designed and made different ones to run at different speeds. They produce loads all the same and then see how fast they will go, because manufacturing is always a bit unpredictable and sometimes chips have faults. Sometimes features that don't work properly are disabled. AMD's triple core CPUs were really quad-cores with one of the cores disabled. Sometimes it hasn't anything to do with the manufacturing, sometimes they just sell fast chips as slow ones, or perfectly functional quad cores as triple cores, just to fill the demand for parts in that performance bracket and hence maximise their sales. They know that there are people who will pay silly prices for the fastest thing there is, and that there are people who are happy with a budget PC. Sometimes you can identify the good overclockers by batch number, because a batch of fast CPUs has been sold as slow CPUs for essentially no technical reason. You can also get motherboards with "core unlocker" functionality in the BIOS, so if you have a triple-core CPU you can get a fourth core "for free" if you're lucky. There's nothing mysterious or new in any of this. And the idea that it is terrible to buy something "crippled" is quite irrational... you pay how much you think it's worth to get something that does so much. Why does it make any difference if there's some extra silicon on the board or not? It's not sitting there bad-mouthing you behind your back.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)