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Old 10 November 2018, 17:38   #1
Marskilla
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Enhanced Chip Set (ECS) Games

Hi there!

Here is a question for which I can not easily find an answer :

Are there amiga games that take advantage of the ECS ?

If you know titles of non AGA games requiring ECS, or, which are better using the ECS than using the OCS...
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Old 10 November 2018, 19:03   #2
arti
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Maybe these ? :
http://hol.abime.net/hol_search.php?...imitstart=&af=
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Old 10 November 2018, 19:26   #3
Amigajay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arti View Post
How is that of any help!?

He’s asking if there are any games that utilise the ECS chipset over the OCS like the Atari STE does over the ST.

Personally i dont know, i know some are listed as ECS on HOL (but most are made to ECS compatible rather than use any of the features), but there is mistakes like Alcocoptor listed as ECS only when its clearly stated as OCS on the title screen!

Last edited by Amigajay; 10 November 2018 at 19:41.
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Old 11 November 2018, 13:07   #4
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As far as I'm aware "Enhanced" meant a "fatter" Angus chip, which meant it could handle more on-board "Chip" memory, up to 2MB.
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Old 11 November 2018, 13:29   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongLifeA1200 View Post
As far as I'm aware "Enhanced" meant a "fatter" Angus chip, which meant it could handle more on-board "Chip" memory, up to 2MB.
That's the biggest benefit of ecs, you can have up to 2mb chip ram. With an a500+ and 1mb in the trapdoor I was able to make bigger and better animations in dpaint3 than my mate with his ocs amiga. Some games also used some of the 2mb (not many).

But also, the graphics chip had an extra screenmode for multisync monitors and some other tiny enhancemants, none of which were ever used by games to my knowledge. So these features of ECS are often overlooked.

There were found some few demos, however, that used these ECS graphics features probably by mistake, which therefore don't work in OCS machines.
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Old 11 November 2018, 13:34   #6
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I recall running a few games on a 31kHz screen by promoting them with NewMode, not sure but I think EoB and Dune II worked like that. That would not be possible with OCS, but it was not something the games were designed for.
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Old 11 November 2018, 15:00   #7
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Bigger blits were possible on ECS. Separate width and height values. Borderblank was another edition. I don’t think anything would have been used in games. Perhaps extra chip memory?
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Old 11 November 2018, 15:06   #8
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http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=58317
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Old 11 November 2018, 21:33   #9
rare_j
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank_b View Post
Bigger blits were possible on ECS. Separate width and height values. Borderblank was another edition. I don’t think anything would have been used in games. Perhaps extra chip memory?
Yes borderblank was nice, there was a utility with Workbench 2 to use it I believe. But I don't recall any games using it.

Did Uridium 2 use ECS graphics in any way or was it just using extra chipram?
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Old 11 November 2018, 22:54   #10
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ECS was 1MB Chip and Super Denise along with Kickstart 2.x. Not familiar of any Disk based game that required 1MB Chip RAM, but there are a lot that required 1MB total RAM. (WHDLoad is another story) Not aware of any game that needs a Super Denise.
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Old 11 November 2018, 23:00   #11
DamienD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
Not familiar of any Disk based game that required 1MB Chip RAM
There are definitely games that require 1MB Chip RAM, or at the very least perform better

Going from games that I added into my collection:

Code:
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\AmigaParachute.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Apocalypse.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Arcade Darts.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Argus.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Astral.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Baldies   [unreleased] [demo].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Battle Isle.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Beastlord.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Blade Warrior.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Bubble and Squeak.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Burton Bird.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Campaign - Tactical & Strategic War Simulation.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Campaign II - 50 Years of Global Conflict.uae
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Castle Kingdoms.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Champion Driver.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Civilization.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\D-Generation.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Desolate World   [unreleased] [demo].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Dick Tracy.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Doctor Strange 2 - The Return of Doctor Strange.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Double Agent.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Draggy and Croco.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Elfmania.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Enemy - Tempest of Violence.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Enemy 2 - Missing in Action.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Epsilon 9 - The Revenge of the Stingons.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Eye of the Beholder II - The Legend of Darkmoon.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Eye of the Storm.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\F1 World Championship Edition.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Fatal Noise   [unreleased] [demo].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\FIFA International Soccer.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Forest Dumb Forever!!!.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Forest Dumb.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Future Wars - Time Travellers.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Garfield - Winter's Tail.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Golden Eagle   [intro on disk 1].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Great Courts 2.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Gunship 2000.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Herman.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\High Noon   [C64 conversion].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Holiday Lemmings 1994.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\In the Dead of the Night.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Ishar III - The Seven Gates of Infinity.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Jetstrike.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Kick Off 2 (Enhanced).uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Kick Off 2 - Return to Europe.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Kick Off 2 - The Final Whistle.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Kick Off 96.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\La Noche de Walpurgis   [intro on disk 1].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Lethal Formula.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Lollypop.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Lost in Mine.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Manchester United - The Double.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Miasto Smierci.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Midwinter II - Flames of Freedom.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Mikro Mortal Tennis.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Missiles Over Xerion.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Nathan Never.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Nippon Safes Inc..uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Obsession.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Operation Stealth.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Parasite II.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Parasite.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Pengo.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Permonie.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Plan 9 from Outer Space.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Powder.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Power Drive.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Power Walls.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Prawo Krwi.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Pulsar.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\R3 - The Art of Rocketry.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Reunion.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Ruffian.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Rise of the Robots.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Scavenger 2.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Scavenger.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Snapperazzi.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Sneech.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Soccer Superstars.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Spatial Hyperdrive.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Star Dust Wars 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Starbase 13.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Super Bob Dylan.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Super Tennis Champs & Character Disks.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Sword.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Teenage Queen.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Tennis Cup.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Tetrix.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Last Refuge.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Lost Vikings.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Patrician.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Pyramid.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Settlers.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Unusual Case of Doctor Strange.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Titus the Fox - To Marrakech and Back.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Tommy Gun.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Top Gear 2.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Total Carnage.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\T-Racer.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Tubular Worlds.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Turbo Trax (Arcane).uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Ultima VI - The False Prophet.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Vicky.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Ween - The Prophecy.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Whizz.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Wild Cup Soccer.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Willy in the Castle of Dreams.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\X-It.uae

Last edited by DamienD; 11 November 2018 at 23:20.
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Old 11 November 2018, 23:51   #12
Mrz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
There are definitely games that require 1MB Chip RAM, or at the very least perform better

Going from games that I added into my collection:

Code:
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\AmigaParachute.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Apocalypse.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Arcade Darts.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Argus.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Astral.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Baldies   [unreleased] [demo].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Battle Isle.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Beastlord.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Blade Warrior.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Bubble and Squeak.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Burton Bird.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Campaign - Tactical & Strategic War Simulation.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Campaign II - 50 Years of Global Conflict.uae
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Castle Kingdoms.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Champion Driver.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Civilization.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\D-Generation.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Desolate World   [unreleased] [demo].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Dick Tracy.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Doctor Strange 2 - The Return of Doctor Strange.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Double Agent.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Draggy and Croco.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Elfmania.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Enemy - Tempest of Violence.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Enemy 2 - Missing in Action.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Epsilon 9 - The Revenge of the Stingons.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Eye of the Beholder II - The Legend of Darkmoon.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Eye of the Storm.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\F1 World Championship Edition.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Fatal Noise   [unreleased] [demo].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\FIFA International Soccer.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Forest Dumb Forever!!!.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Forest Dumb.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Future Wars - Time Travellers.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Garfield - Winter's Tail.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Golden Eagle   [intro on disk 1].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Great Courts 2.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Gunship 2000.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Herman.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\High Noon   [C64 conversion].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Holiday Lemmings 1994.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\In the Dead of the Night.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Ishar III - The Seven Gates of Infinity.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Jetstrike.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Kick Off 2 (Enhanced).uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Kick Off 2 - Return to Europe.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Kick Off 2 - The Final Whistle.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Kick Off 96.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\La Noche de Walpurgis   [intro on disk 1].uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Lethal Formula.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Lollypop.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Lost in Mine.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Manchester United - The Double.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Miasto Smierci.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Midwinter II - Flames of Freedom.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Mikro Mortal Tennis.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Missiles Over Xerion.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Nathan Never.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Nippon Safes Inc..uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Obsession.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Operation Stealth.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Parasite II.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Parasite.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Pengo.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Permonie.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Plan 9 from Outer Space.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Powder.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Power Drive.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Power Walls.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Prawo Krwi.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Pulsar.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\R3 - The Art of Rocketry.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Reunion.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Ruffian.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Rise of the Robots.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Scavenger 2.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Scavenger.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Snapperazzi.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Sneech.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Soccer Superstars.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Spatial Hyperdrive.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Star Dust Wars 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Starbase 13.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Super Bob Dylan.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Super Tennis Champs & Character Disks.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Sword.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Teenage Queen.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Tennis Cup.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Tetrix.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Last Refuge.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Lost Vikings.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Patrician.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Pyramid.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Settlers.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\The Unusual Case of Doctor Strange.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Titus the Fox - To Marrakech and Back.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Tommy Gun.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Top Gear 2.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Total Carnage.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\T-Racer.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Tubular Worlds.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Turbo Trax (Arcane).uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Ultima VI - The False Prophet.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Vicky.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Ween - The Prophecy.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Whizz.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Wild Cup Soccer.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Willy in the Castle of Dreams.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\X-It.uae

this list is totally erroneous
there is no way that future wars, or lost vikings or ween the prophecy and almost all games you posted requires 1mb chip
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Old 11 November 2018, 23:52   #13
Mrz
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I can confirm that turbotrax and dracula, both requires 1mb chip ram
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Old 11 November 2018, 23:57   #14
DamienD
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There are more if you bothered to actually try them i.e. the first on the list "AmigaParachute"

Anyway, as I said; and this is the important part of my above post plus the answer to the original question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
or at the very least perform better

Last edited by DamienD; 12 November 2018 at 00:08.
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Old 11 November 2018, 23:57   #15
retrogamer
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Worms requires at least 1mb chip ram as well.
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Old 12 November 2018, 00:01   #16
DamienD
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But, but; that can't possibly be true... Mrz with all his infinite knowledge says my list is "totally erroneous"
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Old 12 November 2018, 01:16   #17
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you are kids thanks for the funny reading Damien & Mrz
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Old 12 November 2018, 01:59   #18
DamienD
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Ke??? Who's being a kid?

Mrz thinks that my list is bogus... but has no real grounds to say so.

Straight after making him comment; one minute later he says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrz View Post
I can confirm that turbotrax and dracula, both requires 1mb chip ram
Oh, are they the first 2 games you tried? Keep going sunshine!!!

As I already said; if he even bothered to try these games from my list with "512KB Chip & 512KB Slow RAM" he would see that they would either stop loading or crash

I'm not about to retest all again just to prove him wrong; that is totally childish.

...but I've gone through the first 5 via WinUAE for the hell of it; and they do not work with "512KB Chip & 512KB Slow RAM":

Code:
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\AmigaParachute.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Apocalypse.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Arcade Darts.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Argus.uae 
C:\WinUAE\Configurations\Astral.uae
Try them yourself if you think my list is "totally erroneous".

Anyway, again I'll quote the important part of my above post plus the answer to the original question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
or at the very least perform better
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Old 12 November 2018, 10:08   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retrogamer View Post
Worms requires at least 1mb chip ram as well.
Nope, it does work with 512k+512k
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Old 12 November 2018, 10:20   #20
Predseda
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Doesnt matter. Original question is ECS, not the ammount of RAM. In my understanding it is graphics (visual) effects, that OCS can not handle, no matter how much RAM it (theoretically, if equipped with proper Agnus) use. And I personally really do not think there is any single game, that really gathers from Super Denise.
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