What kind of graphical fidelity do you expect from an AGA game?

[Tigerskunk]

Title says it all.
I have seen a lot of discussions about that certain games for the A1200 "don't look AGA", and I always wondered where people draw the line here if a game looks AGA or not.

[idrougge]

Smooth gradients, backgrounds that don't quickly dither into blackness, if you understand what I mean.

[Hewitson]

More colours. Little to no dithering.

[Tigerskunk]

Would love to see some screenshots of games that you think that do AGA justice.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Steril707

Would love to see some screenshots of games that you think that do AGA justice.

Banshee does a pretty good job. As do many others.

[Gzegzolka]

Hard to say for quick answer what define AGA games.
I mean there are some ECS games that looks so great I was sure they were AGA at first (Ruff and Tumble, Lionheart, Disposable Hero).
- More colors than OCS/ECS - it do not need to be 256 colors on screen all the time, but those extra colors might be used to make stuff softer and more vibrant here and there (Virocop).
- more colors in gradients
- backgrounds made with additional layers that move at different speed (Brian The Lion) or just one additional layer with big nice picture (Oscar / Trolls for CD32)
- more idle animations for sprites, generally more sprites on screen, more animated stuff in background, bigger sprites (Disney's Aladdin - I'm sure there is not that much colors on screen, but it got nice well animated sprites, Donk the samurai duck also got tons of additional graphics on stages in cd32 version, while floppy version looks empty)
- special effects like rain, snow, fog, darkness - Marvin Misadventures - sewers levels, Sword - bonus levels, Banshee
- additional extra stuff like more levels, both audio tracks and effects, pad support.

I would love to see Mega Typhoon with AGA enhancements , few more colors, in game audio, maybe added intro and outro.
Also I wonder how much Ruff and Tumble could be improved if it have AGA version - gradients in backgrounds? additional layer in background with nice picture? More graphical effects like falling leaves in woods, falling rain, slowly dripping water drops in caves, extra transparency objects like crystals in caves, animated computer screens in factory in background or maybe similar to Marvelous Marvin darkness effects in Destiny castle?

[donnie]

Basically what people think ecs, ocs graphics are but with:

Fullscreen with overscan
CD32 pad support
50hz scroll/sprites/bobs
music and sfx at the same time.

[Daedalus]

Yeah, bigger sprites (like Aladdin), dual playfield with 16 colours each, subpixel scrolling and 24-bit colour palettes (enabling smooth gradients etc.), 32 colour displays with additional palettes for sprites are all nice AGA features that could be used. AGA games wouldn't necessarily be 256 colour (without copper tricks) to make use of the AGA chipset, but usually the extra colours would be evident. Loot at Worms versus Worms: DC, where the extra colours of the dual playfield capabilities are put to subtle use that would otherwise be beyond the capabilities of OCS/ECS.

CD32 pad support has nothing to do with the AGA chipset - it just happened to be released with an AGA machine. OCS and ECS machines are just as capable of reading the CD32 pad, and 2-button pad support has been in the Amiga since day 1.

[Tigerskunk]

What I get is that most people actually don't expect a lot more than OCS capabilities.

[Solo Kazuki]

I was talking on PPA with people who asks "why AGA?" kind of questions about Rygar. And my observations and conclusions are just opposite than Yours. Most of these people expect from OCS more than it is capable.

[Tigerskunk]

Originally Posted by Solo Kazuki

I was talking on PPA with people who asks "why AGA?" kind of questions about Rygar. And my observations and conclusions are just opposite than Yours. Most of these people expect from OCS more than it is capable.

That's a bit why I am asking about this here.
It seems some people wildly overestimate or underestimate AGA, depending on who you ask.

And yes, a lot of people overestimate what you can do with OCS. I guess that's because they see some game that's been especially written for OCS (like Beast, Agony or Jim Power) and think that kind of stuff you see there is applicable on every arcade port.

[Predseda]

Look at Simon the Sorcerer. This is AGA that I love (altough its ECS version is also beautiful).

[Solo Kazuki]

Actually i had Amiga 1200 PPC card (040@40 & 603@160) and no RTG hardware setting. Using some software patches (e.g. FBlit) i could play on AGA even ~320x200 movies and some games (e.g. Quake) with decent speed. I had luck to stretch AGA to the limit and some people was wondering seeing movie or Quake on Amiga 1200.

So maybe that's why some expectations are too low even for me (e.g. what @donnie points) so probably that will ends with "why AGA?" kind of questions.

@Predseda
There are much more games like this, e.g. Wing Commander (OCS vs AGA/CD32 version), Silmarils games (OCS vs AGA versions), Impressions games (as before)...

[Foebane]

What did I personally expect from AGA?

Only graphics like these:
[ Show youtube player ]

If it has 256 colours total, then it should be able to look just like PC VGA, with the same speed and everything. But NOOOO, AGA is somehow much slower and not able to handle the extra bit depths, especially in sprites, so it was really pointless on an unexpanded A1200.

I've seen the AGA chipset do glorious things on 68040/060 Amigas (even if it is WinUAE) so, unless you're going to boost the raw processing power, AGA is only really suited to slideshows or adventure game still screens.

[gimbal]

Originally Posted by Steril707

Title says it all.
I have seen a lot of discussions about that certain games for the A1200 "don't look AGA", and I always wondered where people draw the line here if a game looks AGA or not.

I can imagine that discussion happens when an AGA game is compared to an OCS/ECS counterpart.

Because I've seen several AGA/CD32 games that actually don't change very much from their OCS/ECS counterpart and that's where I will say "that isn't a proper AGA game".

My expectancy is to see more when a game is released specifically for better hardware. More colours. More sprites. More audio. More layers. More special effects. More more more.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by gimbal

I can imagine that discussion happens when an AGA game is compared to an OCS/ECS counterpart.

Because I've seen several AGA/CD32 games that actually don't change very much from their OCS/ECS counterpart and that's where I will say "that isn't a proper AGA game".

My expectancy is to see more when a game is released specifically for better hardware. More colours. More sprites. More audio. More layers. More special effects. More more more.

Exactly. A good example of this is Syndicate for the CD32 - NOT a proper AGA game. No enhancements whatsoever. A straight Amiga 500 port. Compare that to the nice high resolution 256 colour PC version, it's a really poor conversion (the CD32 one).

There is something of an explanation to why this was the case in Amiga Format issue 73 (July 1995): http://amr.abime.net/review_3221

[Predseda]

Too bad AMOS doesnt support AGA

[Weaselrama]

I often grab both AGA and CD32 versions of games. Frankly, I don't see a lot of difference usually. There are exceptions, Gloom being one of them. The CD32 version is superior.

There is a frustrating game called "Capital Punishment" for which I don't see a lot of reviews. The AGA graphics are spectacular - precisely what you expect and what has already been discussed by those commenting here. Too bad the game play is absolutely awful.

GODS - I haven't seen a CD32 version. I think I've read others saying this set a standard and I probably agree.

I expect better graphics than "Wings" or "Blue Max." These were early non-AGA efforts and even though they're nostalgic for me - I also try to avoid them.

Alien Breed - all versions. The CD32 versions give a modest improvement to the field of view (rather than the resolution) but again, these set a standard.

I'm going to monitor this post. The comments are informative and interesting to read.

[dlfrsilver]

Simon the Sorcerer ECS is 64 half Bright colors, and is a pure jewel of a game.

Simon AGA is 128 colors, and it's somptuous, gorgeous.

[Daedalus]

Originally Posted by Foebane

If it has 256 colours total, then it should be able to look just like PC VGA, with the same speed and everything.

The maximum colour count might be similar, but don't let that trick you into thinking the technologies are similar; they're not. It seems you need to manage your expectations a little and understand what AGA actually is.

But NOOOO, AGA is somehow much slower and not able to handle the extra bit depths, especially in sprites, so it was really pointless on an unexpanded A1200.

Yes, it was much slower, and a totally different technology. But it's not true at all that it was pointless - there are plenty of games that took advantage of the AGA chipset on an unexpanded A1200 to include better features than OCS/ECS. Some are mentioned in this thread. Just because a game doesn't use all 256 colours, doesn't mean it isn't doing something else beyond the limits of OCS/ECS. Large sprites and dual 16-colour playfields for a start are simply impossible on OCS and ECS.

I've seen the AGA chipset do glorious things on 68040/060 Amigas (even if it is WinUAE) so, unless you're going to boost the raw processing power, AGA is only really suited to slideshows or adventure game still screens.

What you're seeing is the capability of the extra horsepower. AGA has the same capabilities regardless, but if you want to manipulate large amounts of imagery, there's no substitute for CPU power, and I suspect that's what's impressing you, not the AGA aspect. But that doesn't change the fact that it offers enhanced capabilities for any software that will use it, regardless of CPU.