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Old 18 November 2010, 15:35   #1
pmc
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Emulation of Graffiti chunky graphics device

Hello Toni.

I wonder - would it possible to emulate the Individual Computers Graffiti chunky display device...?

They're unavailable for purchase either new or on eBay it would seem but it would be really nice to be able to play with using 256 colours and chunky for messing with A500 demo type stuff in WinUAE.

There's at least one guy on here who might have a real one that he could lend to you for emulation testing although obviously I won't promise this on his behalf.

Anyway, would be interesting to know what you think about emulating this.
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Old 18 November 2010, 16:01   #2
musashi5150
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I won't promise this on his behalf.
You can if you like, I don't mind
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Old 18 November 2010, 16:23   #3
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IndivisionAGA can emulate Graffiti.
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Old 18 November 2010, 16:47   #4
Toni Wilen
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I don't support or reverse-engineer third party hardware/drivers unless it is 100% documented or it is something that interests me. This does not.
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Old 18 November 2010, 16:54   #5
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IndivisionAGA can emulate Graffiti.

Indi ECS!
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Old 18 November 2010, 17:17   #6
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They're unavailable for purchase either new or on eBay it would seem
Actually, Gentle Eye seems to have them in stock http://www.gentle-eye.fi/hardware.html
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Old 18 November 2010, 18:05   #7
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Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I don't support or reverse-engineer third party hardware/drivers unless it is 100% documented or it is something that interests me. This does not.
Does this range somewhere near 100%: http://www.schoenfeld.de/inside/Inside_Graffiti.txt ?
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Old 18 November 2010, 18:38   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen
I don't support or reverse-engineer third party hardware/drivers unless it is 100% documented or it is something that interests me. This does not.
LOL

I had a feeling that would probably be your answer Toni.

In my defense you did once ask me if I could think of a pointless feature I'd like to see implemented... it's taken me until now to think of one.

I would like to see this but understand your reasons for saying no.
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Old 23 December 2010, 02:35   #9
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is there a way for other people to add plugin's or features to WinUAE?
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Old 23 December 2010, 05:47   #10
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is there a way for other people to add plugin's or features to WinUAE?
wow! thats pretty mind blowing just to think where a plug-in would sit in the 68k code base / zorro config....

I suppose it could all be a text file - adding memory ranges at X,Y and Z

I would be cool if you could create "plug-in" cards like a Toccata plugin or a Prelude?!

this would require a serious amount of indepth knowledge of WinUAE and of the Plugin's that would offer extra features.

yep.... no doubt about it... my brain has melted...


@pmc

My friend, to play with 256 (or more) chunk screen's just add a 2MB gfx card to you WinUAE install and then create the screens under Picasso 96 (or download Classic Workbench P96)

You can lock a local screen (if it a default RTG workbench screen setup) or do as I do and just note down the screen type number and run with that to open one up - yes I am lazy I do let gad tools do most of my lazy work for me...

but in my defense my old programming lecture said, its okay for programmers to be lazy.... just not idle =)

The tricky part of coding on RTG systems is speed.... and timing frame updates can be a pickle pain...

In the end I used a trick I ended up using on OpenGL - create a routine that refreshes the screen taking timers before and after the test - this should give you x number of frames a second a full draw will take.

just a 3 second initialization routine with help immensely with frame rate restriction!
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Old 24 December 2010, 04:59   #11
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@Zetro:
I meant it more in a way if other add a feature which Tony wont do. (which there isn't much of but )
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Old 24 December 2010, 08:05   #12
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is there a way for other people to add plugin's or features to WinUAE?
There is. Quarktex uses it for example.

But anyway, source code is open and free. Everybody can add the features he likes.
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Old 24 December 2010, 10:18   #13
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There are 3 problems with graffiti (and A2024 monitor) emulation:

1) it is boring and uninteresting
2) it requires "parsing" of display data (see 1 and 3)
3) only place where it fits is filter layer which means you only get final host specific 16/24-bit display data, not original planar data. (it must not be in lower level emulation slowing down everything, even when inactive)
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Old 20 November 2011, 12:51   #14
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A2024 and Graffiti emulation (in some form or another..) will appear in next version.

Remaining technical problem is supporting screen modes that take input from native chipset buffer but output different size/resolution output that can change on the fly.. Display positioning gets totally broken. Still work to do..

Example restrictions: 32-bit color mode required. D3D + null filter required. No optimizations (partial refreshes etc). Only solution for possible slowdown is: Buy a better PC.
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Old 20 November 2011, 20:56   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen
A2024 and Graffiti emulation (in some form or another..) will appear in next version.
Cool.

Never thought this would be seen after your previously posted reasons for not wanting to implement it.

WinUAE just keeps on getting better and better and more and more feature rich.

Thanks Toni.
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Old 22 November 2011, 11:17   #16
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Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
A2024 and Graffiti emulation (in some form or another..) will appear in next version.

Remaining technical problem is supporting screen modes that take input from native chipset buffer but output different size/resolution output that can change on the fly.. Display positioning gets totally broken. Still work to do..

Example restrictions: 32-bit color mode required. D3D + null filter required. No optimizations (partial refreshes etc). Only solution for possible slowdown is: Buy a better PC.
This is cool news.

So it will be possible to write code to target Graffiti and then use WinUAE to test it?
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Old 22 November 2011, 12:16   #17
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Yes.

But I need some graffiti test programs first.

Only lores mode is sort of working now (it looks like palette is not 100% correct but difficult to confirm without having the hardware). Hires totally untested.

Test program = must be as simple as unpack and run.
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Old 22 November 2011, 13:40   #18
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Toni: might be worth dropping a note to musashi5150?

He has a Graffiti. At the top of this thread he seemed happy to maybe lend it for testing purposes.

Maybe he still would be?
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Old 22 November 2011, 13:44   #19
Toni Wilen
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Toni: might be worth dropping a note to musashi5150?

He has a Graffiti. At the top of this thread he seemed happy to maybe lend it for testing purposes.

Maybe he still would be?
Not much point, everyone should already know that I am not going to write any test programs

I need test programs that shows some images using different modes and few screenshots from real graffiti equipped Amiga that can be used to confirm correct colors.
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Old 22 November 2011, 17:50   #20
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Hi Toni,

This info might be useful :

Two examples of software using the Graffiti card are Nemac IV and Trapped. There are demos of both on Aminet.

found here; http://www.gentle-eye.fi/docs/GRFT/graffiti.htm

Glad your still working on this thing, such amazing work !! Thanks
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