Xenon 2 CDTV

[s2325]

by Rafael Lima:

It looks like they tried to code it like how the Atari ST version works, with the CPU drawing the whole screen all the time. This already killed the framerate on the Atari ST (and also on Amiga), on a Master System is just plain stupid. It's funny that it seems like the CDTV version was actually optimized to use the Amiga hardware properly, so the game runs at a blazing speed!

[Retro-Nerd]

Er? Couldn't see the blazing speed in the CDTV version. Maybe it is a veerry tiny bit faster, but the jerkiness is still there.

[s2325]

Maybe it's faster on NTSC.

[Retro-Nerd]

LOL, if you run a PAL game in NTSC speed... for sure.

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by s2325

by Rafael Lima:

Rafael Lima it's me. When I wrote that I thought the CDTV version was indeed faster just because I had seen that video. It's written in a video of the SMS version.

Now I know better

Anyway, I understand we all have really fond memories of the Amiga and all, but I think we should be fairer to the whole library of Amiga games after all this time! GAmes like Xenon 2 need less praise, they just make the platform look really bad. I mean, I can't stop laughing at seeing Xenon 2 and MUSHA Aleste side by side.

Yeah, when I think that Amiga has games like Mega Typhoon and Apidya, I can't understand why we still waste our time praising shit like Xenon 2.

The moving backwards shit on Xenon 2 (Which was the second thing I noticed when I first played it and was like - wtf ?!?!? - the first one was the choppy framerate) is supposed to be used when you get a wrong path.... which again is a completely stupid design idea... made you go back because you took a wrong direction (which you have no way to know when you first play the game) is already bad in a platform game, but COMPLETELY OUT OF PLACE in a shooter.

[idrougge]

Reminds me of people who buy Giana Sisters paraphernalia.

It wasn't a good Mario clone, it wasn't a good Amiga game, it was just what people without a Nintendo had back then.

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Shatterhand

The moving backwards shit on Xenon 2 (Which was the second thing I noticed when I first played it and was like - wtf ?!?!? - the first one was the choppy framerate) is supposed to be used when you get a wrong path.... which again is a completely stupid design idea... made you go back because you took a wrong direction (which you have no way to know when you first play the game) is already bad in a platform game, but COMPLETELY OUT OF PLACE in a shooter.

Yeah, that kind of stuff is fair game on a spelunking game, but not on a shmup. I don't know if the Bitmap Bros. ever played any proper shmups to be honest, and it just makes me wonder why they went and tried to make one.

Originally Posted by idrougge

Reminds me of people who buy Giana Sisters paraphernalia. It wasn't a good Mario clone, it wasn't a good Amiga game, it was just what people without a Nintendo had back then.

Very, very true. It was indeed that.
When I got Giana for my C64, the guy who gave it to me was like "this is like Mario". That was all there was to it. I rnjoy it to a point, but it gets incredibly repetitive soon, and as such, I never had the will to try to finish it or invest large amounts of time in it.

[Dunny]

Can't praise Xenon2 enough, but I do agree with you on SpeedBall 2 - it was an unnecessary sequel, with SpeedBall 1 having done everything right the first time around - I never liked SpeedBall 2 either.

[Shatterhand]

I really enjoy Speedball 2..... but it's not like its an incredibly deep game... but truth to be told, I don't think even the guys at Bitmap Brothers understood what made it fun to play, since they horribly botched EVERY attempt they did to remake Speedball 2.

What you guys don't like about it?

[Retro-Nerd]

Speedball 2 was a logical step, more from the same but better. But they lost the focus of the game core a bit.

[Amiga1992]

I never even gave the time of day to SPeedball 1.
I think the idea behind both SPeedballs is great, but the execution not as much. Maybe it has to do with the sloppy refresh rate.

It just always felt too random to be able to win a game. This is my same gripe with Brutal Sports Football. I think the gameplay or game mechanics are not good enough to let me feel that I was winning or losing game because of my skill or lack thereof.
On the other hand games like Sensible Socer felt right to me, I could realize that I could develop my skill and that there were techniques and mechanics I could use to get good at the game.

Once your players are super powered up in Speedball 2, you can just ram through the computer teams and injure them all. But when you start, the game is so unbalanced, it's hard to play properly and win.

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by Akira

I never even gave the time of day to SPeedball 1.
I think the idea behind both SPeedballs is great, but the execution not as much. Maybe it has to do with the sloppy refresh rate.

It just always felt too random to be able to win a game. This is my same gripe with Brutal Sports Football. I think the gameplay or game mechanics are not good enough to let me feel that I was winning or losing game because of my skill or lack thereof.
On the other hand games like Sensible Socer felt right to me, I could realize that I could develop my skill and that there were techniques and mechanics I could use to get good at the game.

Once your players are super powered up in Speedball 2, you can just ram through the computer teams and injure them all. But when you start, the game is so unbalanced, it's hard to play properly and win.

I most of the time can beat CPU teams weaker than mine. Its like many sports game of that time (and this includes Sensi... well, to be quite honest, even sport games of today) - there are some plays that are very strong/unbeatable, you just stick to them and don't let the opposite team do the same. Much like Brutal Sports Football, when you learn how to pass the ball around with some accuracy and learn how to beat the keeper without doing the "hand him the ball then punch his face" technique the game gets a lot rewarding.

Actually "beating the keeper" is just doing the "tap button THEN push diagonally" which sends the ball in a 45º angle which 9 in 10 times will beat the keeper. But when you begin doing it from some weird angles is really very cool Yeah it's no Sensible Soccer of course, but I still enjoy playing it.

Speedball 1 in the other hand I never got into it, but I only played it after I already knew Speedball 2.

[Retro-Nerd]

Those games are multi-player anyway. Single player against the CPU is nice but the pure fun is playing against friends.

[Shatterhand]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Those games are multi-player anyway. Single player against the CPU is nice but the pure fun is playing against friends.

I usually put friend to play against each other and watch them playing.

Playing against them is kinda unfair because I can beat them easily on those games, since none of them have any experience with it.

Back at the time was the same thing, I was the only one with an Amiga in my school... some friends also loved SWOS but I destroyed all of them with ease, it wasn't *all* that fun really

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd

Those games are multi-player anyway. Single player against the CPU is nice but the pure fun is playing against friends.

I agree, but I tend to prefer games that are a fine experience on my own.
Playing with a bunch of friends in highschool was very fun, but nowadays, I will find myself more often than most playing on my own, and this is maybe also why games like Speedball 2 are less appealing to me nowadays.

[dalek]

Xenon 2 CDTV blew me away with the sound track through my A570. It was like no game I'd ever heard before.

The audio track created such a great atmosphere that made up for any lack of playability that still makes it one of my all time favorite games to play.

[Amiga1992]

That's like saying "this tune I was listening to was so great I didn't have a need to eat anymore"

[dalek]

Originally Posted by Akira

That's like saying "this tune I was listening to was so great I didn't have a need to eat anymore"

Yeah I did skip a few meals playing it too

[Dunny]

I think it boils down to people liking stuff that you didn't, and you don't like that. They have to be told, damnit! They're WRONG!

[Amiga1992]

I think Shatterhand's thread is more about objective analysis after years of release rather than like/dislike.
I include myself in the camp of "had liked Xenon 2 a lot for reasons mentioned in thread, but nowadays, consider it a poor game".