Help to open-source SAS/C

Hauke · 03 December 2016, 12:14

Hi, does anybody have contact information for SAS, that could help release the source-code to the compiler (buyout or open-source)?
Or is in contact with anybody who does?

Samurai_Crow · 03 December 2016, 12:23

The CPR debugger that came with it is worth more than the compiler.

Locutus · 03 December 2016, 12:43

Seeing what a huge bureaucratic oldschool conservative company SAS is;

Good luck! :-D

tolkien · 03 December 2016, 12:49

I talked to one of the developers last year to only have access to the debugger info and is impossible. Sasc still uses some code from it so...

Hauke · 03 December 2016, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by tolkien

I talked to one of the developers last year to only have access to the debugger info and is impossible. Sasc still uses some code from it so...

Do you have any contact details, or can you pass on a message?

tolkien · 03 December 2016, 16:45

I was searching them in all the net. Finally I found one of them in reddit and talked.
Im trying to find the link.

Minuous · 04 December 2016, 00:57

There are various ways to contact them listed on their official site http://www.sas.com

midwan · 10 January 2017, 21:33

I tried contacting them over Twitter a couple of months back regarding the same matter.
Initially they recommended I send in a request using their Feedback form on their website. I notified other people to do the same.

Some time later, a correspondent reached out to me. He mentioned that "they are still selling the product and could not open source it", which struck me as strange. When I proceeded to clarify, mentioning that the Amiga version is not for sale for several years now (but if it was, I'd gladly buy it), he went silent...

Hauke · 10 January 2017, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by midwan

I tried contacting them over Twitter a couple of months back regarding the same matter.
Initially they recommended I send in a request using their Feedback form on their website. I notified other people to do the same.

Some time later, a correspondent reached out to me. He mentioned that "they are still selling the product and could not open source it", which struck me as strange. When I proceeded to clarify, mentioning that the Amiga version is not for sale for several years now (but if it was, I'd gladly buy it), he went silent...

I am afraid, sofar this is exactly what happened to me...
The support guy did not understand what I was on about and thought I only talked about the documentation...

I am not sure if we should start an online petition, or just buy billboards around their HQ... ("Guess what, we want to buy your product, but can't...!")

We need to find somebody that can bypass and go straight to the boss...

I've got Jens (from Indivision) involved, but no news yet on any progress...

Pat the Cat · 10 January 2017, 22:52

I'll give 'em a call tomorrow. But writing to them might actually be better, in the sense of asking the right person.

SAS have a lot of represenstation globally and also a surprisingly long history going back to the 1970s (maybe ealier). Mostly they operate out of N Carolina in the USA, and Marlow in the UK.

I doubt I'll be able to persuade them by snapping my fingers, but I could ask them what their issues would be about releasing the the Amiga package, which is what people are really interested in.

If they won't, there's nothing I can do to make them. But they might trade. They were NEVER cheap. I doubt very much they would open source, but they might be OK with a distrubition deal for the old one, bearing in mind it's very old and people can not expect to get support for it.

Part of the issue is that they are set up to handle technical queries about their products. Their managements are carefully isolated from the telephone system. If people want postal correspondence addresses, PM me and I'll let them know who and where to write to.

Pat the Cat · 10 January 2017, 23:15

You can look them up yourself, just by typing the company number into Companies House, but make sure you are writing to an ACTIVE officer and not a resigned one.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...16437/officers

Hauke · 11 January 2017, 15:58

@Pat the Cat: Thank you! Let us know what they said...

I think, other than knowing somebody, we will need a concerted effort from all of us.
A mailing campaign or something like that to get anywhere...

If it was a matter of buying the rights, I would be happy to organize a kickstarter compaign to raise the money... but without a price tag this is pointless...

wXR · 20 April 2017, 04:53

Who are the specific individuals which control this right now?

Hauke · 20 April 2017, 11:18

It is still the SAS Institute, which is a privately held company. They have publicly stated to dislike open-source.
Also, they do not intend to sell the rights or reissue any versions io the compiler...

gulliver · 20 April 2017, 12:09

The problem is that SAS became a huge multi billion company with lots of branches. So it is very hard to reach the desition makers over there.

The Amiga code is not used in any of their current products. The problem is more the internal regulations and legal burocracy that making this product open source leads them. On these mega corporations, any sourcecode of their products is guarded under a seven key safe and to take something out from over there is a lot of work.

matthey · 20 April 2017, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

The problem is that SAS became a huge multi billion company with lots of branches. So it is very hard to reach the desition makers over there.

SAS is supposedly the largest private software company in the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

The Amiga code is not used in any of their current products. The problem is more the internal regulations and legal burocracy that making this product open source leads them. On these mega corporations, any sourcecode of their products is guarded under a seven key safe and to take something out from over there is a lot of work.

The SAS/C compiler is still available.

http://support.sas.com/documentation/onlinedoc/sasc/

SAS likes to sell support so the 3 systems it is available for are probably because of customers who pay for support. The compiler frontend is probably still using some of the same code the Amiga SAS/C compiler is using (shared by all targets). The 68k/Amiga backend code would be of limited use by itself. IMO, it would be better to fund efforts to improve more modern compilers with sources available like vbcc and GCC for the 68k/Amiga. Open source does *not* guarantee development (it just makes it easier in some ways).

plasmab · 20 April 2017, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hauke

Hi, does anybody have contact information for SAS, that could help release the source-code to the compiler (buyout or open-source)?
Or is in contact with anybody who does?

I worked for SAS as a developer and then development manager for 7 years. I couldn't even find the code let alone figure out who to ask about getting it. SAS have very strict policies about this sort of thing that makes what you're trying to do virtually impossible. Dr Goodnight never sells IP in my experience.

EDIT: I believe the lead dev for SAS/C (Lattice C) still works at SAS.

idrougge · 20 April 2017, 19:17

On the other hand, the SAS/C developer(s) did offer some after-market support by releasing patches even after the product was discontinued, so there are some cracks in the SAS wall.

plasmab · 20 April 2017, 20:01

Well i still have a lot of friends at SAS i could try and make some enquiries but I wouldnt recommend holding your breath. TBH porting code to vbcc would be time better spent.

plasmab · 20 April 2017, 20:26

Actually. In my experience of SAS/C the compiler is pretty compatible... its the SAS make utility that we would really like a port of? Would it make more sense for someone to write a clone of the make/build tools so that you could drive a build with vbcc?

I haven't been away from SAS long enough that I wouldn't get my ass sued if i wrote such a tool unfortunately. (EDIT: Still very much under NDA).

03 December 2016, 12:14	#1
Hauke Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Germany Posts: 12	Help to open-source SAS/C Hi, does anybody have contact information for SAS, that could help release the source-code to the compiler (buyout or open-source)? Or is in contact with anybody who does?

10 January 2017, 22:52	#10
Pat the Cat Banned Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 481	I'll give 'em a call tomorrow. But writing to them might actually be better, in the sense of asking the right person. SAS have a lot of represenstation globally and also a surprisingly long history going back to the 1970s (maybe ealier). Mostly they operate out of N Carolina in the USA, and Marlow in the UK. I doubt I'll be able to persuade them by snapping my fingers, but I could ask them what their issues would be about releasing the the Amiga package, which is what people are really interested in. If they won't, there's nothing I can do to make them. But they might trade. They were NEVER cheap. I doubt very much they would open source, but they might be OK with a distrubition deal for the old one, bearing in mind it's very old and people can not expect to get support for it. Part of the issue is that they are set up to handle technical queries about their products. Their managements are carefully isolated from the telephone system. If people want postal correspondence addresses, PM me and I'll let them know who and where to write to. Last edited by Pat the Cat; 10 January 2017 at 23:02.

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03 December 2016, 12:23	#2
Samurai_Crow Total Chaos forever! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Waterville, MN, USA Age: 49 Posts: 2,186	The CPR debugger that came with it is worth more than the compiler.

03 December 2016, 12:43	#3
Locutus Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Finland Posts: 1,176	Seeing what a huge bureaucratic oldschool conservative company SAS is; Good luck! :-D

03 December 2016, 12:49	#4
tolkien AmigaMan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Castro Urdiales/Spain Posts: 760	I talked to one of the developers last year to only have access to the debugger info and is impossible. Sasc still uses some code from it so...

03 December 2016, 16:45	#6
tolkien AmigaMan Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Castro Urdiales/Spain Posts: 760	I was searching them in all the net. Finally I found one of them in reddit and talked. Im trying to find the link.

04 December 2016, 00:57	#7
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,631	There are various ways to contact them listed on their official site http://www.sas.com

10 January 2017, 21:33	#8
midwan Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 114	I tried contacting them over Twitter a couple of months back regarding the same matter. Initially they recommended I send in a request using their Feedback form on their website. I notified other people to do the same. Some time later, a correspondent reached out to me. He mentioned that "they are still selling the product and could not open source it", which struck me as strange. When I proceeded to clarify, mentioning that the Amiga version is not for sale for several years now (but if it was, I'd gladly buy it), he went silent...

10 January 2017, 23:15	#11
Pat the Cat Banned Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 481	You can look them up yourself, just by typing the company number into Companies House, but make sure you are writing to an ACTIVE officer and not a resigned one. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...16437/officers

11 January 2017, 15:58	#12
Hauke Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Germany Posts: 12	@Pat the Cat: Thank you! Let us know what they said... I think, other than knowing somebody, we will need a concerted effort from all of us. A mailing campaign or something like that to get anywhere... If it was a matter of buying the rights, I would be happy to organize a kickstarter compaign to raise the money... but without a price tag this is pointless...

20 April 2017, 04:53	#13
wXR Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New York Posts: 552	Who are the specific individuals which control this right now?

20 April 2017, 11:18	#14
Hauke Registered User Join Date: May 2016 Location: Germany Posts: 12	It is still the SAS Institute, which is a privately held company. They have publicly stated to dislike open-source. Also, they do not intend to sell the rights or reissue any versions io the compiler...

20 April 2017, 12:09	#15
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	The problem is that SAS became a huge multi billion company with lots of branches. So it is very hard to reach the desition makers over there. The Amiga code is not used in any of their current products. The problem is more the internal regulations and legal burocracy that making this product open source leads them. On these mega corporations, any sourcecode of their products is guarded under a seven key safe and to take something out from over there is a lot of work.

20 April 2017, 19:17	#18
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	On the other hand, the SAS/C developer(s) did offer some after-market support by releasing patches even after the product was discontinued, so there are some cracks in the SAS wall.

20 April 2017, 20:01	#19
plasmab Banned Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: UK Posts: 2,917	Well i still have a lot of friends at SAS i could try and make some enquiries but I wouldnt recommend holding your breath. TBH porting code to vbcc would be time better spent.

20 April 2017, 20:26	#20
plasmab Banned Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: UK Posts: 2,917	Actually. In my experience of SAS/C the compiler is pretty compatible... its the SAS make utility that we would really like a port of? Would it make more sense for someone to write a clone of the make/build tools so that you could drive a build with vbcc? I haven't been away from SAS long enough that I wouldn't get my ass sued if i wrote such a tool unfortunately. (EDIT: Still very much under NDA).

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