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Old 13 April 2018, 13:04   #41
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*cough* Yes, it's a solitary exception, but the rather magnificent Tornado is a recently built steam engine that has been built brand new from scratch based on old designs with some modernised features, and is qualified for main line running at 100MPH in the UK. In that way it's close to a stand-alone Vampire in Amiga terms...
But I do get your point.
Oh, wow. My 6 year old son is gonna be absolutely over the moon about that
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Old 13 April 2018, 13:34   #42
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So where are we then with the ECS flickerfixer. The Demand question can easily be answered by looking at the market on ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amiga-Ind...kAAOSw0u5alx-Y
This one went for double they cost new!.
So If I ever want one of these do I need to pay the ebay premium or is it best to wait??
Online Amiga hardware suppliers have added this item as discontinued or no longer available, but here is suggesting Individual just doesn't see the demand yet.. or am I missing something? Chris at Amiga Kit told me Individual are concentrating on "other Projects" instead?
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Old 13 April 2018, 13:52   #43
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If I thought there was a market for Amiga hardware I’d quit my job and do it full time. I just about break even with my efforts to supply Amiga users with products.

The TF328 has sold about 3-400 units between myself supaduper and alenppc... demand is falling off. That wouldn’t have been enough sales to make an assembly run viable.

The demand isn’t there.
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Old 13 April 2018, 14:04   #44
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I believe otherwise, I think the Retro computer scene is picking up.
I think this could be thanks to You Tubers. (8 bit guy, modern vintage gamer, nostalgia nerd, retromancave, Dan Wood etc..)
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Old 13 April 2018, 14:23   #45
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The problem for the makers/manufacturers of these projects is more that demand doesn't stay anyway constant, but dips and dives at indeterminable times.
There may be certain months of the year that hundreds of people have cash to spend on their hobby, other times thousands don't so stuff goes unsold!
It's basically just what it is.
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Old 13 April 2018, 14:33   #46
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I believe otherwise, I think the Retro computer scene is picking up.

I think this could be thanks to You Tubers. (8 bit guy, modern vintage gamer, nostalgia nerd, retromancave, Dan Wood etc..)


I agree with this in general but this is increasing demand for the original units rather than expensive upgrades. People have choked at spending £50 on the TF328... and accused me of ripping them off. retro may be on the up but users are really tight with pennies
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Old 13 April 2018, 14:56   #47
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Part of this is because an Amiga isn't any more a must-have piece of hardware in the home. PCs are - and so things like peripherals; gfx cards, USB extenders etc are all in demand especially with new games and demanding applications coming out all the time. This just isn't happening with the Amiga.

People will only spend when they feel they have disposable income to waste on obsolete and irrelevant hardware, and because the Amiga is obsolete they don't feel they can justify the (entirely understandable) extra cost that such small production runs entail.
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Old 13 April 2018, 15:50   #48
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I agree with this in general but this is increasing demand for the original units rather than expensive upgrades. People have choked at spending £50 on the TF328... and accused me of ripping them off. retro may be on the up but users are really tight with pennies

They can say what they want, but it doesn't justify the hard work time and expense, involved in customised retro computers/hardware. If they knew the facts, they would shut the F*** up and just pay the very fair asking price!


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Part of this is because an Amiga isn't any more a must-have piece of hardware in the home. PCs are - and so things like peripherals; gfx cards, USB extenders etc are all in demand especially with new games and demanding applications coming out all the time. This just isn't happening with the Amiga.

People will only spend when they feel they have disposable income to waste on obsolete and irrelevant hardware, and because the Amiga is obsolete they don't feel they can justify the (entirely understandable) extra cost that such small production runs entail.
Not entirely true. Some people do feel the Amiga is a must have piece of hardware. Also to some people, the Amiga is not obsolete.

Admitted I noticed that certain times of the year, present better sales but that could be said of any business.

I build retro tower systems and offering something different always brings interest. Modern with retro, although the build quality has to be as near perfect as possible. Again not an easy task by any means, specially when it is not geared up for manufacture.
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Old 13 April 2018, 16:00   #49
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The TF328 has sold about 3-400 units between myself supaduper and alenppc... demand is falling off. That wouldn’t have been enough sales to make an assembly run viable.

The demand isn’t there.
My bad, but I didn't know they were so readily available. But that says something doesn't it? And if you do know, then how do you order one? Do you join a list for the next batch? Do you have to source your own 68030? (I genuinely don't know the answers)

I don't think (eg.) Amibay can tell us anything about demand. Other retro products end up on Amazon, in real bricks & mortar stores, in gadget shops that put out catalogues and advertise in magazines, even as special sales in supermarkets like Aldi or Lidl.

They're priced as impulse purchase or a present, they're plug-in-and-go type products and you can have them straight away. Some of the comments about the C64 Mini show we're bit sniffy about convenience, but that's what people expect. That's why Amiga stuff doesn't sell, because most of it is a faff that only a few of us take any pleasure in.
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Old 13 April 2018, 16:06   #50
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So where are we then with the ECS flickerfixer. The Demand question can easily be answered by looking at the market on ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amiga-Ind...kAAOSw0u5alx-Y
This one went for double they cost new!.
So If I ever want one of these do I need to pay the ebay premium or is it best to wait??
Check out their Christmas post on their website - they're making more.
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Old 13 April 2018, 16:06   #51
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People have choked at spending £50 on the TF328... and accused me of ripping them off. retro may be on the up but users are really tight with pennies
Urgh, I hate this sense of entitlement that so many people seem to have...
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Old 13 April 2018, 16:20   #52
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Originally Posted by sneckburger View Post
So where are we then with the ECS flickerfixer. The Demand question can easily be answered by looking at the market on ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amiga-Ind...kAAOSw0u5alx-Y
This one went for double they cost new!.
So If I ever want one of these do I need to pay the ebay premium or is it best to wait??
Online Amiga hardware suppliers have added this item as discontinued or no longer available, but here is suggesting Individual just doesn't see the demand yet.. or am I missing something? Chris at Amiga Kit told me Individual are concentrating on "other Projects" instead?
There has to be demand if they are willing to pay twice the amount. This is simply because you cannot get these anywhere!

Something else I noticed, since the Vampire 600/500 was released demand for the Amiga 600/500 increased, proving that new hardware does help the Amiga.

TF accelerators are also in demand, only I have yet to see them on Amigakit. I am amazed that Amigakit haven't thought of producing TF's of their own? Offering the original designer a small % of sales.
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Old 13 April 2018, 16:40   #53
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Not entirely true. Some people do feel the Amiga is a must have piece of hardware. Also to some people, the Amiga is not obsolete.
Absolutely. But that does not translate into enough demand to justify the cost of a production run! These days the components needed have to be in the tens of thousands or the cost just skyrockets. Trust me, I know!

It's just not worth the initial outlay if you cannot guarantee that you're going to sell them all. Even producing 500 new boards with components on it isn't a sure thing, not for a community as small as that surrounding the Amiga.
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Old 13 April 2018, 17:02   #54
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Absolutely. But that does not translate into enough demand to justify the cost of a production run! These days the components needed have to be in the tens of thousands or the cost just skyrockets. Trust me, I know!

It's just not worth the initial outlay if you cannot guarantee that you're going to sell them all. Even producing 500 new boards with components on it isn't a sure thing, not for a community as small as that surrounding the Amiga.
Ordering from China makes a significant difference, also you could produce the product out of a lesser Country, where salary costs can be kept to a minimum. Most big companies do this all the time.

So sale of finished product, seriously outweighs the cost of producing the product.

You could also do what Commodore did to MOS, order a S*** load of micro chips, promise to pay them and then don't! This then resulted in MOS going into receivership, in which Commodore snapped them up and acquired full ownership of said company.
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Old 13 April 2018, 17:46   #55
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I'm fairly certain that sort of behaviour would be cause for a brief stint inside these days but feel free to give it a shot
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Old 13 April 2018, 19:15   #56
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My bad, but I didn't know they were so readily available. But that says something doesn't it? And if you do know, then how do you order one? Do you join a list for the next batch? Do you have to source your own 68030? (I genuinely don't know the answers)

Interesting. I’ve had very good coverage of the model from the retro hour. Basically I face 2 issues. The first one is CE marking. I own a private company that is nothing to do with Amiga and if I had a product that I knew for absolute sure would sell I’d keep it closed source and sell it. But if I did that I’d need CE testing. Specially EMC testing is the pain point. It would cost between 1 and 2000 pounds.

Second is support. If I sell a commercial product there is a level of support expectation. Sellers get slaughtered on the forums for not responding immediately to requests... i would probably need employees to cover my holidays etc.

To be able to get past both issues I’d need presales of 1000 units or make the prices sky high. Then I am under pressure to deliver.

The alternative model is to open source the designs so the community can own the designs and probably can make their own... cheaper and maybe more sustainable long term.
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Old 13 April 2018, 19:37   #57
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TF accelerators are also in demand, only I have yet to see them on Amigakit. I am amazed that Amigakit haven't thought of producing TF's of their own? Offering the original designer a small % of sales.

They are free to sell them without giving me a penny. But they aren’t CE marked so can’t be sold in Europe commercially
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Old 13 April 2018, 19:39   #58
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The alternative model is to open source the designs so the community can own the designs and probably can make their own... cheaper and maybe more sustainable long term.
Would this be the same as T-Berners Lee when he didn't charge anyone for use of the internet? What do you gain financially from allowing your designs to be molested by others?

In regards to your last post I was just trying to show fairness to you, the original designer.
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Old 13 April 2018, 19:45   #59
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Would this be the same as T-Berners Lee when he didn't charge anyone for use of the internet? What do you gain financially from allowing your designs to be molested by others?



In regards to your last post I was just trying to show fairness to you, the original designer.


It’s a hobby for fun. If you modify it you need to support it
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Old 14 April 2018, 00:06   #60
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Absolutely. But that does not translate into enough demand to justify the cost of a production run! These days the components needed have to be in the tens of thousands or the cost just skyrockets. Trust me, I know!

It's just not worth the initial outlay if you cannot guarantee that you're going to sell them all. Even producing 500 new boards with components on it isn't a sure thing, not for a community as small as that surrounding the Amiga.
Furthermore you have the possibility of making those 500 new boards and then discovering a fault with them, and not always right away, maybe something which goes wrong after 100 hours of use.

Then it's not only curtains it's 500 people with pitchforks coming after you and wanting blood.

Not worth the risk in my opinion.
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