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Old 29 July 2020, 17:57   #1
Retro-mania
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A1200 Acceleration - which route?

Just a quick straw poll - for a big performance boost and increased gaming experience with FPS’s such as Doom, Quake etc, from the following list which would you choose assuming you have a stock A1200 ...

1. Warp 1260 (if you can source the 060)
2. Vampire 1200
3. Older option but to throw it in the mix ... Blizzard PPC 603e @160mhz & 68040 @ 25mhz (inc 64mb RAM) with BlizzardVision Graphics card

Which one would you go for?
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Old 29 July 2020, 18:01   #2
Samurai_Crow
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Vampire 1200 without question! A FPS benefits more from fast CPU than high resolution graphics. The Warp 1260's advantage is its rock-solid 1080P display. At 160 MHz the 603e PPC could keep up with Vampire but not worth what you'd pay for it.
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Old 29 July 2020, 18:04   #3
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+1 for the Vampire. Warp 1260 looks seriously cool, but the hoops you have to jump to get a decent 060 (and the $$$$ you need to pay for it) make it a deal-breaker for me.
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Old 29 July 2020, 18:21   #4
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Vampire, but be prepared for a long wait, I'm on the queue for V1200 since January.
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Old 29 July 2020, 18:22   #5
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IMO it really depends on if you want to run PPC. There is no single ideal solution for the combination of PPC and 68K in one card.

In general, most stuff is 68K so the advice to consider the Vampire is good advice. They (Vampire Apollo team) basically took the approach to implement the most used 68K commands on their "68080" design which drops memory management in favor of maximum compatibility with the bulk of Amiga 68K software (be it 020, 030, 040, or 060). (This is smart though personally I would like 060 memory management more than the last bit of "compatibility".)

Likewise, if you are considering PPC, I'd suggest sticking with classic accelerators for best compatibility, such as the BPPC/603e. Yes, they're expensive and yes, they're getting old which is higher risk.

If you're up for experimenting/cutting edge and the true extreme, the Sonnet driver supports the "PRPMC8150" family of PMC cards and allows up to 1GHz overclocked on an Amiga 4000 when paired with a Ramix PMC239 / PCI to PMC Adapter and an Elbox Mediator PCI. To be honest, I have this setup but I need help getting the software right. There are YouTube videos showing this working. See [ Show youtube player ]

Greg
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Old 29 July 2020, 18:31   #6
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I would choose the Warp 1260. This is a really cool piece of hardware. I don't like the vampirestuff and i've sold it all by now.
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Old 29 July 2020, 19:25   #7
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Technically and theoretically, the Vampire wins but in reality its not as obvious.
First of all, you will not know when you will get after you ordered it. Second, have you seen the forum there. With a few exceptions its not (IMO) a very fun community to be in. If you need help, the guy who builds the hardware is very helpful but since he lives outside EU it can be a hassle to post the card back and forth.. Also, in the forums, you will likely not get much support unless you use their custom OS distro built around AROS and always chase the latest cores/builds. so there is that aspect of it too.. If you're like me, you will feel very much like a permanent beta tester.
Again, what I say here is based on my own experiences. I've gotten rid of my Vamp card now.

The warp is definitely the coolest 68k based card out there, but yes it's price is not for everyone. Also, not everyone will find a rev6 cpu so the performance might not be as advertised. Personally that would be my 1st choice. (But I already have an apollo 1260 with overclocked rev 6 060 so I don't really need it atm ;-)

Anyway,. lets not forget another option which will be available soon. The TF1260 designed by Stephen Leary (TerribleFire). He's an awesome chap who's goal is to provide users with affordable accelerators for all Amigas. (His designs are then usually produced by a couple of other community heroes (Supadupa, alenppc and maybe some more ppl, maybe Chucky this time also).
The TF1260 will surely be the most affordable 060 option, but it will not have the fancy extras of the warp or Vamp..
But you do have options..
As for the old champs, blizz 1260, apollo 1260, BlizzPPC, well I guess you already know exactly what to expect..
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Old 29 July 2020, 19:38   #8
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Quick reply to address the PPC stuff. Officially, the sonnet project does not support the A1200. I have the Ragnarok card but am unable to use it in my A1200. That said, /if/ there’s any sort of hack to make it work in an A1200, the Vampire lacks an MMU which the sonnet project depends on.

In other words, the only way to make an A1200 have PPC is with a Blizzard card.
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Old 29 July 2020, 19:54   #9
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I very much doubt sonnet PowerPC.library will ever fully support A1200, but you never know.
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Old 29 July 2020, 20:45   #10
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Personally I think the ARM route in the ZZ9000 is about the most exciting thing to come to the Amiga in many years. I've just gotten my very first A4000 and I'm quite a ways down the road of completing my setup. I'm going for a fast 68k in the form of a 40mhz 040. The 040 is PLENTY fast and not insanely pricey like the 060. For most 68k tasks it will do the job well. And Matze is designing a new TK-board for A3000/4000 that will support both 040s and 060s. I think Leary's 1260 will also support 040, but I'm not sure about that.

Supporting the 040 will be the ZZ9000 with it's ARM co-processor. The ZZ9000 really is an all-in-one expansion (sans CPU) for the Amiga and I really hope people will make some cool stuff for it. Check out Lukas' (maker of the ZZ9000) twitter feed for a video of VICE running on the ARM-chip in AmigaOS. Pretty damn cool!
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Old 29 July 2020, 22:19   #11
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Whichever option you will need deep pockets! Vampire if you can get one directly would be most cost effective.

I do have a fondness for classic PPC technology, they actually had fantastic potential it's just a shame that they didn't get the software they deserved.

That said the interest in the sonnet library has brought about a lot of new ports, I'm interested to see how some of this software will run on the classic hardware.

I'm lucky to have recently acquired a BPPC 040 plus BVision which has been of to the legend that is Stachu for upgrade, due back this week it now boasts 60mhz 060 and 330mhz PPC.

Amongst my collection I have an A1200 Tower with Blizzard 1260 and Mediator PCI to which I have had some success with a PCI PPC card but it's not and as above will probably never be 100% functional.

I also have an A500+ with Vampire and I have to tip my hat to the Vampire team, it is a fantastic bit of kit, the HDMI output is crystal clear and a lot of software runs to equal speed of classic PPC, the only exception is the Warp3D stuff.

I'd be keen to see what a Vampire 1200 could so coupled with a Mediator PCI or does it need an MMU?

Last edited by fitzsteve; 29 July 2020 at 22:32.
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Old 29 July 2020, 23:47   #12
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One day I might get a FPGA solution but not if it means most of the Amiga except the keyboard becomes vestigial - seems like a big waste of hardware. I will almost certainly buy the Warp 1260 but I would also almost certainly buy a standalone Vampire box.
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Old 30 July 2020, 00:19   #13
cloverskull
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@fitzsteve - I plan to test out the Vampire V1200 + Mediator setup within the next month or so All parts are on order to build it.

Fingers crossed.

At the end of the day, I could probably trade someone for the Vampire if this doesn’t end up working.
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Old 30 July 2020, 00:47   #14
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I agree with fitzsteve, i have a V1200 and on installation busted my IDE connector on my 1200( my own fault, no fault of the vampire) however currently the option is using V1200 IDE OR a1200 IDE + PCMCIA. There is a current test getting all working together but its not downloadable yet but hipefully soon.

The Warp card is so cool but what are our chances of getting a v6 060 CPU to go with it, next to no chance.

Theres the terrible fire 060 card and iComp 060 card, not much details on the latter and former will be acceleration only, i.e. no gfx card.

Based on the above id go woth the Vampire, it has its issues but will get sorted but just be aware of those issues. The Vampire is also sustainable in that its not dependent on ancient parts, for me thats a plus.

Warp i would love but issues acquiring a legit v6 060 and the others are unknowns at this stage although we know the terrible fire but again issue with getting a v6 060
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Old 30 July 2020, 11:25   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeberbach View Post
One day I might get a FPGA solution but not if it means most of the Amiga except the keyboard becomes vestigial - seems like a big waste of hardware.

With current Vampire V2 accelerators, the Amiga chipset is fully functional.
It only replaces the CPU.
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Old 30 July 2020, 11:54   #16
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Originally Posted by cloverskull View Post
@fitzsteve - I plan to test out the Vampire V1200 + Mediator setup within the next month or so All parts are on order to build it.

Fingers crossed.

At the end of the day, I could probably trade someone for the Vampire if this doesn’t end up working.

Unforunately the Mediator will not currently work with the Vampire.


http://apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=5&note=26544
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Old 30 July 2020, 12:07   #17
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Old 30 July 2020, 13:11   #18
S0ulA55a551n
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Vampire, but be prepared for a long wait, I'm on the queue for V1200 since January.
Mine is i n the post. Cant wait

I have no interest in replacing the custom chipset. IF they ever got to gold v3 on a1200 i wont bother. If you want that just buy the standalone.,

But having the fastest 68k you can buy, with a basic digital out and networking and fast ide , its win win win
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Old 30 July 2020, 15:51   #19
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I've just moved my Vampire 600 V2 on recently and replaced it with a Mediator for my 4000. The Vampire is a great bit of hardware but I do not see the point in them as an add-on board for old Amiga's. The stand alone is like a new model of Amiga and that is where all the efforts should be focused. Doom is nice on 060, never tried Quake yet but if you want to play those games why not just do it on any pc from the last 20 years for next to nothing? Running FPS games on the Amiga is just an expensive novelty.

Last edited by -Acid-; 30 July 2020 at 16:04.
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Old 30 July 2020, 17:36   #20
lmimmfn
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Originally Posted by S0ulA55a551n View Post
Mine is i n the post. Cant wait

I have no interest in replacing the custom chipset. IF they ever got to gold v3 on a1200 i wont bother. If you want that just buy the standalone.,

But having the fastest 68k you can buy, with a basic digital out and networking and fast ide , its win win win
My take also, only interested in the vampire as a cpu, rtg stuff i wouldnt mind having a mess about with but for games etc. have no interest in the vampire taking over from the custom chipset.

The perfect solution would be a 060 but.....
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