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Old 15 July 2020, 14:52   #61
chiark
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Awesome - it looks like there's two different approaches here:
- Yannick + team, polygon drawing
- RobinsonB5 + team, rasterised interpretation

Robinsonb5, is there any value in looking for repeated lines in a frame for further efficiencies?

This is looking like some form of opcode encoded in the first byte might perhaps be useful to identify-
- literal data
- render block X (picked from presets you've identified)
- delta from 2 frames back
- repeat from X lines above?

Are there any repeated frames?
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Old 15 July 2020, 15:06   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
Yes the goal of limiting paths to 126 points is to allow removing the test and the sum.
This can be easily extended to 129 points with same encoding:
%sxxxxxxx; sxxxxxxx=0, repeat / s=1, new_frame; $01/$7F -> $03/$81
Speed do not change in assembler. I've anyway to extend to word and adjust for dbf.
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Old 15 July 2020, 15:24   #63
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Yes, now that we do not handle more than one control word per polygon we can extend it to 129 points, it will not change a lot the final result but doesn't cost a lot either.
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Old 15 July 2020, 18:17   #64
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I have to say I like the ideas and I cant wait to see the result !

Also...I want to share the idea even if I make myself a fool.
My mind is only limited for Amos Basic so I know nothing about HW coding, but I like to experiment with things and there is one I am allways interested in called copper list which used to manipulate the screen ...rainbow, zoo, ect... back and forth even between the raster lines.....I think it is like an RLE code. Could It be use for something for the cause?
I know there is a size limit and it has to be precalculated but
-there is no need to store coordinate Y
-no need to runtime calculate coordionates or movement
-no need for a code part to draw lines
-...i think the raw data could be small enough

As I sad my mind is limited for Amos Basic. I am sure I missed something.....What do you all think?
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Old 15 July 2020, 18:34   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sovenyimre View Post
I have to say I like the ideas and I cant wait to see the result !

Also...I want to share the idea even if I make myself a fool.
My mind is only limited for Amos Basic so I know nothing about HW coding, but I like to experiment with things and there is one I am allways interested in called copper list which used to manipulate the screen ...rainbow, zoo, ect... back and forth even between the raster lines.....I think it is like an RLE code. Could It be use for something for the cause?
I know there is a size limit and it has to be precalculated but
-there is no need to store coordinate Y
-no need to runtime calculate coordionates or movement
-no need for a code part to draw lines
-...i think the raw data could be small enough

As I sad my mind is limited for Amos Basic. I am sure I missed something.....What do you all think?
I don't know if I understood your idea, but maybe it's what DanScott and I talked about in an old thread (use the copper to modify the color registers to fill the polygons).
The problem is that it is tremendously complicated.

---


I've something moving on screen, garbage for the most but the silhouette is here.
And is really fast
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Old 15 July 2020, 18:56   #66
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I will upload a datafile with modifications that we've discussed about
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Old 15 July 2020, 19:00   #67
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Just a point on extracting images with FFmpeg etc. I've already got all the frames in png and iff format extracted on a real amiga if anyone wants them here: https://github.com/stevelord/umadapple - just in case anyone wants to make a claim that their prod was produced entirely on an amiga but doesn't want to burn the cpu time
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Old 15 July 2020, 19:09   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
I will upload a datafile with modifications that we've discussed about
You have a PM.

This is not the real speed, Yannick can confirm

EDIT: image removed

Last edited by ross; 16 July 2020 at 10:32. Reason: cleaning
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Old 15 July 2020, 19:58   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiark View Post
Awesome - it looks like there's two different approaches here:
- Yannick + team, polygon drawing
- RobinsonB5 + team, rasterised interpretation
Yes indeed - I'll be honest, I was tinkering with this mostly out of idle curiosity because I wanted a day off from the FPGA stuff that I usually immerse myself in - so I probably won't take the rasterised approach much further unless Yannick and Ross's approach hits a brick wall. That's looking unlikely - so far it's looking really impressive!

Quote:
Robinsonb5, is there any value in looking for repeated lines in a frame for further efficiencies?
Maybe - though I would have (perhaps naively) expected compression after encoding to spot that kind of repeat.

Quote:
This is looking like some form of opcode encoded in the first byte might perhaps be useful to identify-
Yes, I was certainly thinking in terms of some kind of opcode or control-word based system.

Quote:
Are there any repeated frames?
That I haven't yet determined - I haven't even broken the datastream into frames yet - I just let my edge-detect-frame-compare hack run over the entire animation and output its findings into a binary file. (Only takes a couple of minutes on a decade-old Core2Duo.)

So for now I'll watch with interest as the vector-based approach takes shape, and maybe pick this up again for the hell of it next time I feel a spot of FPGA burnout!
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Old 15 July 2020, 20:21   #70
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@Ross

Impressive! the first shot you've sent me is showing that the concept will certainly work.
Now it's debugging and later on optimization time.

How did you compress the data on disk it it is compressed at all?

Next step would then be to add some music to this.

/Yannick
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Old 15 July 2020, 21:24   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yannick View Post
@Ross

Impressive! the first shot you've sent me is showing that the concept will certainly work.
Now it's debugging and later on optimization time.
Sure a lot of debugging is needed

I don't know how it manages to generate these wonderful abstract art paintings:

EDIT: image removed, no more art in new version

Quote:
How did you compress the data on disk it it is compressed at all?
It is slightly compressed but nothing significant.
The small size you see is why I brutally cut so many frames...

Quote:
Next step would then be to add some music to this.
Don't you like the music i put on?

Last edited by ross; 16 July 2020 at 10:34. Reason: cleaning
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Old 15 July 2020, 21:59   #72
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I didn't turn on sound when I've tested ;-)
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Old 16 July 2020, 10:37   #73
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Ok, significantly less glitches in the new version (some remain and will certainly be the most insidious ones ..)

But now in motion is really nice


EDIT: even less (zero?) glithes now
I confirm that a great one floppy OCS/ECS version can be made, and probably an incredible AGA version in two floppy.

Now we need a conversion for this:
[ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by ross; 16 July 2020 at 14:59.
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Old 16 July 2020, 14:44   #74
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wow, i cannot wait to have this great demos for Amiga.
but why you need audio conversion. music is incredible in this amiga edition?
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Old 16 July 2020, 14:59   #75
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wow, i cannot wait to have this great demos for Amiga.
but why you need audio conversion. music is incredible in this amiga edition?
We would need a musician who makes a 4 channels version for Amiga, based on what I have indicated in the link (the instrumental version of Bad Apple)
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Old 16 July 2020, 15:13   #76
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Anything you could share yet Ross? Any help needed?
The Music was originally FM synth based, wasn't it? Realise that the vocal version isn't
Answering my own question: https://modarchive.org/index.php?req...d&query=178526
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Old 16 July 2020, 15:18   #77
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I could be wrong, but the music must be Protracker only ?

Perhaps an exotic module could be used, which usually take less space on the disk

The SID used for C64 for example is really cool
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Old 16 July 2020, 15:24   #78
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Anything you could share yet Ross? Any help needed?
Yes, probably, in a very alpha stage.
No help needed for the code part

Quote:
The Music was originally FM synth based, wasn't it? Realise that the vocal version isn't
Answering my own question: https://modarchive.org/index.php?req...d&query=178526
I'm not sure I've understood your sentence...

The original version from PC98 is synth based.
The Nomico version is vocal based.
You posted a (very know) .xm version.

We need a 4channel mod version (preferably a chip/tiny one)
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Old 16 July 2020, 15:43   #79
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The mod is something that I can't help with.
What is important is that is remains synchronized with video.

With what Ross is doing we can assume that video will be at same speed / frame rate as the original video (30fps).

So we are looking for someone able to build up a 4 channel mod as close as possible to the original version that will be small enough to fit together with video and code on one floppy.

Something less than 100kB or even 50kB would be required.
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Old 16 July 2020, 19:34   #80
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Now we a have the 6500+ frames in a single floppy.
Resolution changed to overscan, that's awesome .

But, even if possible, it's unsure that it will be used in the final version because it requires a format that reduces the granularity of the y resolution.
We should do several tests to see which is the best method.
The engine is flexible enough, so the changes don't take long.
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