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Old 07 August 2020, 16:45   #41
Steril707
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These numbers are cute.
These days, if a game doesn't sell a couple million copies, it's deemed a commercial failure.
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Old 07 August 2020, 16:51   #42
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Then again, I've recently watched the full credits for the Final Fantasy VII Remake... A small city worth of people worked on it
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Old 07 August 2020, 17:59   #43
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Cannon Fodder 2 - 45,000 sold in first two days
SWOS - 64,000 first shipment sold out in days, unclear on further sales data

Source AF68

Worms - 50,000+

Source AF81



Btw Mcgeezer will you be updating the first post with these sales figures or do you want me to create a new thread at some point?
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Old 07 August 2020, 23:34   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steril707 View Post
These numbers are cute.
These days, if a game doesn't sell a couple million copies, it's deemed a commercial failure.
That is very true. Then again the big releases these days have budgets in tens of millions of dollars to hundreds of millions for the huge AAA prodcutions like the Rockstar games.
Thats a big reason a lot of them are more risk averse too and you dont see so many crazy ideas and creativity. Luckily we still have indies and smaller titles too for that kind of thing.

Majority of Amiga games had a handful of guys working on them and they didn't need to sell several milloin to make a profit.
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Old 08 August 2020, 04:38   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
Can you back up your figures with verified sources Denis?

This link which has some sales for Amiga titles differs from yours (SOTB for example).

https://www.everythingamiga.com/2016...d-million.html


While I don't have any hard evidence (yet) I'd be inclined to say that more ST games were sold over their Amiga counterparts simply on the basis that the ST was more popular than the Amiga in the mid Eighties. Only until people started to notice what the Amiga could really do and ditch their ST did sales start to swing over to the Amiga as far as games are concerned - I'd reckon this was around 1989.
80.000 for Beast ? I remember M. Edmonson gave this number for Beast I.
Beast II sold many thousand due to its presence in Amiga pack bundle.

However, some numbers are completely wrong, like those of Crazy Cars III. Titus sold tons of this game on Amiga/ST/PC.

The 6 given is just a joke from Campbell.

The ST had the advantage market wise until 1988. them the amiga took the lead. I got the number for France and a bit later for UK, the ST is always behind the amiga.

About the sources, of course i have them. Either from magazine, the authors, or the publisher who gave the information.
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Old 08 August 2020, 04:41   #46
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Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post
Nice find, some good data worth extracting from that site.

Couple more to add:

Sensible Soccer European Champions - 130,000
First Samurai - 18,000

Source Amiga Format Special Issue 7
Yes, i'm not amazed by First Samurai. Mevlut Dinc explained that the game was released just when Mirrorsoft/imageworks went down due to R. Maxwell death.

The sales were lost for this reason.
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Old 08 August 2020, 08:28   #47
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Originally Posted by Amigajay View Post

Btw Mcgeezer will you be updating the first post with these sales figures or do you want me to create a new thread at some point?
I’ll update the first post sometime today mate.
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Old 08 August 2020, 08:52   #48
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I’ll update the first post sometime today mate.
Cool

Yeah i would double check the facts from that other link you posted, multi-platform games we can’t really get an idea of Amiga sales only a maximum, i guess the C64 would take at least 50% of those sales of alot of those games.

As for Lawnmower sim!? Wtf!? I think someone gullible was jotting down any sales figures, its not even a thing as afaik!
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Old 08 August 2020, 09:11   #49
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Update on that 50,000 Worms number in post #43

Martyn Brown posted on a userboard 21/3/96 that Worms number was a distributed Number, actual sales were 35,000 by that point, probably unlikely another batch was made, but i guess 50k would be safe to put as a total even if they ended in bargain bins they prob still sold them all.

That was in a discussion why AGA games weren’t selling and Alien Breed 3D was the most hyped game of the year but only sold 25% of Worms at that point, so an estimate for that title would be 8,750 - 10,000
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Old 08 August 2020, 09:39   #50
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As an aside, have the computer mags from back in the day been scanned?

I remember years ago buying some mags digital from Ebay but I can't find the CDROM.

Anyone know where I might get them so I can start trawling in my leisure over the school hols?

Edit - I just found AF on archive.org.
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Old 08 August 2020, 09:41   #51
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Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
As an aside, have the computer mags from back in the day been scanned?

I remember years ago buying some mags digital from Ebay but I can't find the CDROM.

Anyone know where I might get them so I can start trawling in my leisure over the school hols?
Archive is the best place to check
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Old 08 August 2020, 12:10   #52
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I had a look in CVG's Amiga/ST special - https://archive.org/details/cvg-maga...e/n71/mode/2up - which says that Ocean's first Amiga game was going to be Wizball. I don't know if Defender of the Crown was the first commercial Amiga game, but it seems there was very little (at least in the UK) noise before 1987. There's a list of Atari ST games here, some of which look familiar: https://archive.org/details/cvg-maga...e/n63/mode/2up

I get the impression from my Commodore reading that the Amiga wasn't marketed as a gaming machine until the A500 came out, while the Atari ST absolutely was.
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Old 08 August 2020, 13:56   #53
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Originally Posted by mcgeezer View Post
As an aside, have the computer mags from back in the day been scanned?
https://commodore.bombjack.org/amiga/
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Old 09 August 2020, 07:40   #54
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I have a friend who worked at Midway games who told me that a licensed property sold around 50,0000 more units than an un-licensed property.

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Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
Robocop 3 with its special copy protection?
Count me as buying that game on day one, all the way to the United States

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
Yup, they went to the trouble of using it and i think it cost Ocean £1 per dongle which if I remember rightly, Ocean absorbed the cost of and didnt pass onto the user.

Why goto those lengths otherwise?
They had actually put all the money into R&D for the dongle not just for Robocop three but for all of their future releases which to help offset the cost over many years.

Obviously that didn't happen :-)

Last edited by lilalurl; 09 August 2020 at 08:01.
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Old 09 August 2020, 11:10   #55
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I've updated the first post with the game sales that I've been able to find from verified sources (magazines / interviews mainly).

If you want to add to the list then you must provide EVIDENCE of a credible source of where you got the information from. P

A couple of thoughts..
  • It would be good to get this put into the HOL at some point.
  • If anyone has access to the Gallup charts or knows where they are then let me know, I suspect a lot of the information is in them that would be useful.
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Old 09 August 2020, 21:32   #56
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When I researched this topic I remember interrogating Google with every variation of phrases relating to sales numbers I could think of, using all the 'advanced modifiers'. Many of these inserted stars in place of the number of copies sold, putting the phrase in inverted commas to only return results including that exact phrase. e.g. "shifted * copies" "amiga"

I trawled the web for hours, many of the hits pointing me towards OCRed old Amiga mags on Archive.org and elsewhere. Some results took me to forums or articles where people were quoting stats, hopefully backing them up with sources.

Clearly some of the games/figures included are jokes. I left these in for a bit of light relief after driving myself insane with this nightmare challenge. I do enjoy a bit of tongue in cheek nonsense. The idea was to provide a link that would demonstrate the contributor was having a laugh and leave the reader to discover that. Maybe it was a stupid idea, but then it's not an academic thesis.

My other angle was searching the PDFs on my own drives en masse, but then most of these would be available online in any case.

Anyway, I think my point is that anything that can be found out via Google alone probably already has been. Where we'll find any remaining figures is in the magazines/books that have yet to be OCRed, or directly from talking to insiders.

One problem with getting accurate stats is that mostly they were kept private and it would be the accountants who saw them first. I've never read a retro gaming article by an accountant who used to work for a games publisher where they spill the beans, so to speak. They'd pass the reports to management and then that might be the end of the line in terms of disclosure.

If it was company policy to share sales figures in internal newsletters/memos as a morale-boosting exercise, the devs etc would then be put in the picture. I've seen a few of these, but it's not common for them to be preserved and end up online unfortunately. That would be a massive loft-scouring exercise and only tends to happen when someone is writing a book.

That list of top-selling games without figures is really interesting/useful since it gives us an entry point to start researching individual games. It's a bit of a shot in the dark otherwise, as I found.

As for the Gallup sales charts, these were printed in several magazines in the '80s and '90s but didn't include sales figures. Occasionally annotations around the charts would quote the odd notable figure so that's another avenue. Note that Gallup weren't the only ones in this game. HMV and Woolworths for instance also submitted their charts to the magazines.

I seem to remember reading about an industry insiders newsletter covering the actual figures, but didn't manage to track down copies.

Btw, I'm now adding all other retro systems to the database, making it a retro gaming sales chart database rather than just an Amiga one. It could take a while...
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Old 10 August 2020, 10:28   #57
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I agree that while reading and researching about these sales figures is interesting, the numbers themselves can't be assumed to be 100% accurate. The human factor certainly is there, and I'm sure many times they got a little "strategic boost" - back then to improve staff morale or look better to competitors, nowadays maybe just to boast.

Eg I was reading about Last Ninja 2 on C64 yesterday and the CEO said it sold 5.5 mil copies on that platform alone. Seems a bit rich, even if there was ~17-20 mil C64 sold by then.
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Old 10 August 2020, 11:33   #58
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Eg I was reading about Last Ninja 2 on C64 yesterday and the CEO said it sold 5.5 mil copies on that platform alone. Seems a bit rich, even if there was ~17-20 mil C64 sold by then.
Hmm, it's difficult to know for sure. As in, I'm 100% sure you are correct that some fudging and nudging of numbers took place to make things look better than they really were (especially if such numbers could be nudged to cross some psychological barrier like 1 million). But I still find it unlikely the numbers as presented are not at least somewhat close to the truth. There's only so much nudging you can do before people start calling you out.

In this particular case, I have no real information other than what you just pointed out. I'm inclined to believe the real number will at least have been in the ballpark of the claim (so let's say anywhere between 4.5 and 5.5 million units). It's just that vast gulfs between reality and claims tend to be found out.
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Old 10 August 2020, 11:54   #59
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It's just that vast gulfs between reality and claims tend to be found out.
Usually, but not always. Especially when it comes to history. Since there was no exact data then it's possible to make all sorts of claims. Back then, without the web, it'd be much harder to refute, and now it's impossible to prove or disprove.

I generally would agree that the tweaking was probably mostly more reasonable, but I'm sure there were some more audacious and brash attempts too. I'm not saying LN2 is one of them, guess we'll never know, it's just this 5.5mil number seems really wild. By comparison it is claimed that Defender Of The Crown have sold 1 mil, by 2001 - across all the formats (and it was ported to everything). And SNES's Zelda - one of the biggest games ever - sold 4.6 mil, but there were 60 mil SNES units and very little piracy.
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Old 10 August 2020, 12:18   #60
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Last Ninja and Last Ninja 2 were extremely popular games on the C64.

Everyone I knew that had a C64 has these; so maybe 5 million is realistic.
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