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Old 04 March 2016, 18:31   #221
dlfrsilver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcat666 View Post
I still don't know if dlfrsilver is the biggest deluded idiot ever or is he just trolling here...?
Neither of Both, the amount of C64 selling must not make you blind about the rest of the history

I own a C64 and you don't own a CPC. It's easy to see where each is OK or not
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Old 04 March 2016, 18:43   #222
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Actually I used to own two 6128's (one with 3.5" drive internally, one of them had a 512 ram expansion and a nice 5.25" disk interface), one 464, a few monitors (two colour ones), a few PSU's with modulators - everything Schneider branded though. Sold the disk system and the ram to Gryzor (you probably know him ) and the rest was picked up by some idiot from Croatia for 400 Euro's. In the end I was left with one 464, PSU and one B&W monitor. If you want, you can pick that up for a packet of rolos
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Old 04 March 2016, 19:43   #223
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lol Thanks but i have already more than my own share of CPCs either 464, 464+ or 6128.
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Old 05 March 2016, 02:29   #224
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I'm sure I just saw someone say that the best 8bit version of RType was the C64 version? Is that true?

D.
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Old 05 March 2016, 02:56   #225
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Best 8bit computer version. Surely not as god as the Master System or PC-Engine ports.
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Old 05 March 2016, 04:33   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Best 8bit computer version. Surely not as god as the Master System or PC-Engine ports.
it was the best during all those years, but now, the CPC version is the most accurate to the coin-op version, never mind that they added a part of the PC-engine intro and also new screens.

To change things, some C64 coders must go back to the drawing board, and make also an enhanced version, with better graphics than the feast of grey the original C64 version is
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Old 05 March 2016, 05:28   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
I'm sure I just saw someone say that the best 8bit version of RType was the C64 version? Is that true?

D.
I was only comparing it to the CPC and Spectrum since these are the computers we have been discussing here, consoles are another topic altogether.
The C64 version wasn't as good as it could be, but again it was made in only 6 weeks and my point was that even when a C64 game was rushed, it could still be smooth and playable.
And it was the best 8bit computer version back then despite it's flaws, if you want to look at better C64 shooters, then see my previous posts.

Here is a little reminder of what the original CPC version of R-type was like, as it was just terrible- [ Show youtube player ]
And again the C64 version for comparison- [ Show youtube player ]
And here is the CPC Remake with it's glorious 3fps scrolling and jerky sprites.
Be amazed at how the large spaceship on level 3 jerks about at 1 frame every 2secs, what a joke- [ Show youtube player ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
it was the best during all those years, but now, the CPC version is the most accurate to the coin-op version, never mind that they added a part of the PC-engine intro and also new screens.

To change things, some C64 coders must go back to the drawing board, and make also an enhanced version, with better graphics than the feast of grey the original C64 version is
Does the CPC have a more accurate version of R-type now with the remake, YES!
But is the remake more playable then the smoother moving C64 original that came out 28yrs ago, NO!
The CPC remake is still a jerkfest! And to think you guys had to wait almost 3 decades for a better version, well that is just funny, you may as well just play it on mame these days if you want the best.

Also it's hilarious when you mock the C64 games for looking grey when i can remember most C64 games had full 16 colour graphics.
Especially since the majority of CPC games were monochrome speccy ports, lol.

Also there has been mention of how the CPC R-type remake should of been done on the enhanced CPC Plus range, as obviously the basic CPC464 is not up to the task of smooth moving games.
Then maybe we should also look at hardware enhancements for the C64 as well.
Behold what the C64 could do with the Supercpu - [ Show youtube player ] and [ Show youtube player ]
Maybe someone could do an R-type remake using the Supercpu, or how about someone do it on the C65!!

Also can someone show me something on the CPC464 that was technically better then this?? - [ Show youtube player ]

Last edited by hansel75; 05 March 2016 at 06:22.
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Old 05 March 2016, 10:22   #228
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That game is technically impressive. Colours are very drab though. And god what a tedious game
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Old 05 March 2016, 10:47   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S0ulA55a551n View Post
That game is technically impressive. Colours are very drab though. And god what a tedious game
Mayhem on C64 has beautiful colours(see pics), you must not of looked far enough into the game to see the more colourful levels. It also had unique colour tricks to give the illusion of more colours used.
If you really want to know what 'drab' looks like, then here is a better example- [ Show youtube player ]

Also Mayhem might be a little tedious, but it still has better gameplay then any CPC platformer by far.
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Last edited by hansel75; 05 March 2016 at 10:56.
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Old 05 March 2016, 12:49   #230
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Been watching the vids on youtube of the C64 verison - there's.. well, key elements of R-Type actually missing! The game is smooth enough, granted but things like the circular patrolling ring is static in level one, the level boss has no inner green guy, level 3 has no level architecture, just a cut-down version of the big ship...

Also: No missiles? Extra pods? Was it just the one force pod in the 64 version?

Given that the Spectrum could manage to put those things in, I'm wondering if the R-Type version for C64 is another lazy port?

D.
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Old 05 March 2016, 13:02   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansel75 View Post
Mayhem on C64 has beautiful colours(see pics), you must not of looked far enough into the game to see the more colourful levels. It also had unique colour tricks to give the illusion of more colours used.
If you really want to know what 'drab' looks like, then here is a better example- [ Show youtube player ]

Also Mayhem might be a little tedious, but it still has better gameplay then any CPC platformer by far.
the problem is the CPC mainly had speccy emulator runnin' games. It's not even game code ported from the speccy, it's the speccy version emulated on CPC. How do you want a game like R-type to run correctly since the CPC has emulate a spectrum to run the game ?

As told before we even had c64 emulators running basically on CPC, like with the game Barbarian from Palace software. The game is too slow because the CPC has to convert on the fly the c64 assets (yes the c64 assets are present on the CPC disk and tapes !), from the original c64 hi-res resolution, to CPC mode 0. And the same apply to the game code, it's basically the c64 code emulated on z80.

How do you want the game to be good enough ? The main CPU is loosing more than half of its time to replicate the c64 (or the spectrum) original behaviour ?

For R-type 2012, they used the spectrum code as a base, but the game is 4 fps, but the scroll is faster.

Anyway, you need to use a real CPC to get the real speed, as no emulators actually reproduce the exact speed (CRTC emu problem)

PS : Black tiger CPC is also a speccy emulator running the speccy version on CPC, sorry ! How do you want the game to be good, when it has to emulated another machine ?
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Old 05 March 2016, 13:22   #232
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
And the same apply to the game code, it's basically the c64 code emulated on z80.
Errm, m-kay.
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Old 05 March 2016, 13:32   #233
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Errm, m-kay.
I'm not kiding, the z80 code is line by line the 6502 code from the C64 version trans-ported to the CPC. It has been examined by a CPC coder who saw that the code used is not only unoptimized, but also not 'CPC' compliant. It's not organized and used correctly, there is a certain way to code in z80, and here it's not how things must be done.
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Old 05 March 2016, 14:06   #234
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I guess in the end it comes down to the quality of the software we had, and not the hardware.
And all the 'what if scenarios", and 'excuses for lame CPC versions', with it's lousy ports accounting for a lot of the crap games on CPC.
That still doesn't change the fact the the C64 had the biggest range of software available with better quality overall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
Given that the Spectrum could manage to put those things in, I'm wondering if the R-Type version for C64 is another lazy port?
It was still smooth and playable despite lacking features, what would you prefer, smooth/playable but missing a few things, or jerky just for the sake of making it accurate?
Also once again, C64 R-type was rushed and made in 6weeks, but still played better then the CPC and Speccy versions!

It seems that some people prefer more colourful/jerky graphics over smoother gameplay, puzzling!

Last edited by hansel75; 05 March 2016 at 14:16.
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Old 05 March 2016, 14:16   #235
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The C64 was known to have 'washed out' colours. I owned a C64 back in late 80s but got hold of another one last year. Using it with SD2IEC to load games and a 14 inch CRT TV. I have to say that yes, it has kinda washed out colours but scrolling games are very smooth. It also has very good music with the SID chip. I never owned a CPC or Spectrum but have watched alot of comparisons and there is no doubt in my mind that the C64 is the superior gaming platform over a CPC or Spectrum.

R-Type is very smooth on the C64 and has good music. On the CPC remake it looks extremely jerky. The CPC has sharp colours compared to the C64 but they almost get too sharp in my opinion. The C64 version looks more natural in my opinion. Looks aside, the CPC has way too low fps and I consider what I see unplayable by my standards.

Edit: The C64 'washed out' colours is done with style. It has this 'metallic' feel to them that fits very well in many games. So it's not always bad. It has it's charm
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Old 05 March 2016, 14:32   #236
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This war from back in the day, and even today, between C64 VS CPC/Spectrum is very similar to the war between Amiga and Atari ST. Back in the day we only had magazines and rumors to look for comparisons between the systems. We had no internet. But today we have everything. And there is no doubt in my mind that I and all of my friends back in the day did the right choice in going C64 and then Amiga. Looking at comparisons today between the same game on Amiga VS Atari ST is just laughable. The C64 actually has better sound in games VS Atari ST. The Amiga was more expensive than Atari ST though.

As gaming platforms the C64/Amiga was superior to it's competition. There is a reason the C64 was the most sold homecomputer ever.
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Old 05 March 2016, 15:09   #237
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Washed out colors? Maybe you didn't have/had a proper CRT connected via S-Video cable. Yes, the C64 II model had a less saturated default video out compared to the old "breadbin".

Increase the saturation via knob at it's fine. Check the CSDb for colorful C64 graphics. They look mostly more authentic then the oversaturated CPC "candy colors".
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Old 05 March 2016, 15:19   #238
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@Retro-Nerd. Where is the knob for adjusting saturation on the c64? Or did you mean on a television?
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Old 05 March 2016, 15:26   #239
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Of course on the TV.
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Old 05 March 2016, 15:35   #240
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I love how long this thread is and it's the same argument from both sides at the begging
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