English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.WinUAE

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07 July 2018, 06:49   #1
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 1,228
Is it better to use 68060 under emulation, rather than 68040?

In the readme docs for high-performance Demoscene prods, they always insist on using 68060 whenever possible, because that was the fastest and most powerful Motorola 68x CPU on real hardware, I guess. However, I have not used it in emulation for several reasons:

1. AmigaDOS needs extra libraries for 68060 (I have them, but they don't come as standard)
2. The 68060 specification is actually lacking in areas that the 68040 covers (I read this somewhere many years ago, don't know if it's true).
3. Under emulation, it shouldn't matter as to the accuracy of the speed.

As a result, I have settled on the 68040 and am running that as the top-end. Should I go all the way to 060?
Foebane is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 07:12   #2
chip
Registered User
chip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Italy
Age: 43
Posts: 734
I also use 68040 as the top configuration

Never used 68060 even if demo talks about it

It probably means that 68060 is "better" but not "mandatory"

I always used a plan 68020 config and 68040 + FPU config and nearly all demos work this way
chip is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 07:27   #3
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 1,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by chip View Post
Never used 68060 even if demo talks about it
I've come across two demos that won't even run unless on 68060, like The Collective's "Amiversary" and Whelpz' "We Can Code Again". Amiversary is baffling as it's only a few pictures connected by low-end effects, and is still a work-in-progress, and WCCA is, to be honest, no different to many high-end demos out there. It seems selfish and self-defeating for them to limit the platform they will run on:

https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=65977
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=62204
Foebane is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 07:34   #4
chip
Registered User
chip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Italy
Age: 43
Posts: 734
Ok, not encountered those demos yet

Probably in this case the 68060 is mandatory

So, you need to create a 68060 config too
chip is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 07:41   #5
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 1,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by chip View Post
Ok, not encountered those demos yet

Probably in this case the 68060 is mandatory

So, you need to create a 68060 config too
The attached screenshot is what I get when I run Amiversary. The prod (whatever version it is) should run on as much hardware as possible.

Ah, who cares, the demo is cheesy and badly-coded, anyway.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	001.png
Views:	92
Size:	30.7 KB
ID:	58763  
Foebane is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 09:43   #6
meynaf
son of 68k
meynaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lyon / France
Age: 45
Posts: 3,133
CPU type does not matter for speed if you select "fastest possible". I use 68030 as it does not need anything special.
Selecting 68060 is total useless unless the demo (or whatever program) checks explicitly for it.
meynaf is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 10:09   #7
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 1,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by meynaf View Post
CPU type does not matter for speed if you select "fastest possible". I use 68030 as it does not need anything special.
Selecting 68060 is total useless unless the demo (or whatever program) checks explicitly for it.
My "fastest possible" days on WinUAE are over. It was ridiculous that I was using that on an Intel Core i3 with a Nvidia GTX 960 - the Amiga graphics on even high-end demos would whizz around so fast and/or so smoothly that I never realised that it was not what real Amiga hardware was. The fact that YouTube videos most likely used FP to make them look good is also a good reason not to trust them.

FP is fine on a much lower spec that otherwise couldn't handle WinUAE at all, but I certainly don't need it.
Foebane is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 10:31   #8
jotd
Cat freak
jotd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Age: 46
Posts: 2,476
more: 68060 can render some games incompatible because of removal of some integer instructions (like MOVEP, but there are a lot of others).

And I had trouble with those on WinUAE some time ago (even with whdload which is supposed to emulate them and it does), and since I couldn't explain the issue to Toni, I switched back to 68040. I just tested Speedball 2 (which uses MOVEP) with 68060 and it works now

Note: I have a real miggy with a A1260 inside too

Last edited by jotd; 07 July 2018 at 10:38.
jotd is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 10:52   #9
hexaae
Registered User
hexaae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Italy
Age: 42
Posts: 1,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jotd View Post
Note: I have a real miggy with a A1260 inside too
/OT
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...46#post1252746
/OT
hexaae is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 10:57   #10
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 43
Posts: 21,762
When using emulation 68020/030 or 68040 are the most common options. 68040 may be needed if program uses MOVE16 (=crashes without 68040). 68020/030 are easy and simple, no need for CPU libraries. There is no need for 68060 in normal use. (Use software to fake 68060 bit if some annoying program complains that it needs 68060. Should be available from aminet.)

If you need MMU, always use 68040 or 68060 if possible, 68030 MMU emulation is much slower.

Note that default CPU/FPU configuration creates super FPU that implements all existing FPU instructions. Which means you don't necessarily need to enable 68040 to get double/single FPU instruction variants (FDMOVE etc) that are not implemented in 6888x and software emulation is not needed for 68040+ missing FPU instructions.

Of course if you untick "unimplemented" checkboxes, you get exact matching CPU/FPU without extra instructions and correct exceptions when missing instruction is executed (Note that this is not JIT compatible).

There should not be nothing wrong with MOVEP exception, it probably is some other environment/config difference.
Toni Wilen is online now  
Old 07 July 2018, 14:07   #11
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 1,228
I found this old thread when looking for this program that will trick the 68060-requiring program to run in 68040.

What's the program itself called? I try many searches for "set fake 68060 bit" in Google but I can't seem to find the program mentioned.
Foebane is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 14:31   #12
thomas
Registered User
thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,681
http://aminet.net/package/util/sys/Make060
thomas is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 15:41   #13
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 1,228
Foebane is offline  
Old 07 July 2018, 17:20   #14
hexaae
Registered User
hexaae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Italy
Age: 42
Posts: 1,101
I use 060 WB, and prefer to add specific tootypes/scripts for launched games/demos bashing the (virtual ) metal where I degrade WinUAE for compatibility (and restore everything when I get back to WB). Works REALLY nice, especially after 4.x.x!

[ Show youtube player ]
(old video)

P.S.
...and thanks to G-Sync/Freesync it's a pleasure to play 50/60Hz (PAL/NTSC) games super smoothly as it was in those good old years...

Last edited by hexaae; 07 July 2018 at 17:27.
hexaae is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
68060 Mk3 same as 68040? pixelsmack New to Emulation or Amiga scene 4 28 July 2016 11:00
68040/68060 CPU Speed Steve support.WinUAE 5 03 June 2014 22:38
68040 vs 68060 tesla support.Hardware 10 20 April 2013 19:13
Latest 68040 and 68060 librariesq alewis support.Apps 3 08 August 2006 14:26
68060 vs. 68040 speed difference ketma support.Hardware 1 25 April 2005 00:12

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.07885 seconds with 14 queries