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Old 28 June 2020, 07:39   #1181
Bruce Abbott
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Originally Posted by Hillsy_ View Post
It should have been an '030' 25Mhz machine to compete with the PC. Forget about MD/SNES. It was all about PC Doom and to a lesser degree Wing Commander.
Which didn't exist when the A1200 was introduced.

Funny thing is, Doom plays fine on my A1200 with 1990's accelerator card. But it wasn't available for Amigas because the designer didn't believe it could be ported satisfactorily (he was wrong). So when you say 'it should have been an 030 25MHz' what you really mean is it should have been a PC. Because that's the only way we would have gotten Doom on an 'Amiga'.
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Old 28 June 2020, 17:04   #1182
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It was all about PC Doom and to a lesser degree Wing Commander.
It was not "all about PC Doom".
Me, for example, was never really that impressed when I saw it on my friend PC. Most of these first 3D games (and even second and third wave" were very ugly to me, back in the day, and now.
Playstation games too.
It wasn't until 2002-2003 that I started to like some of the 3D games.
And I have some friends that thinks the same.

So, not all of us were ready to throw of ours Amiga's, because of Doom. Actually, my first Amiga was purchased in 1996, long after I saw Doom. That game meant very little to me.

I liked Wing Commander though, but not for the 3D itself, but more because of epic story and campaign, cinematics, etc...
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Old 28 June 2020, 17:10   #1183
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I was impressed more by Amiga games relative to the gameplay and nice graphics.

Games such as Superfrog, Chaos Engine, Fire & Ice and Lethal Weapon provided hours of gameplay.

When I saw Doom I was impressed by the concept but recall wondering why the graphics were so 'blocky'...

As much as the thread is about disappointment with A1200. I find the whole notion somewhat goes against the reason I loved the Amiga machine... it is what it is... the flaws or setbacks are all part of the fun!
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Old 28 June 2020, 17:24   #1184
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Correct.
The whole PC experience, for me, was rubbish in comparison to Amiga and Workbench.
Only after Win XP, things started to look better.
Everything on PC run, either to slow, either too fast. When they do today comparison of some games on Amiga and PC, they just start the gog versions of that games, and nobody remembers how these games runs on PC's back then.
I remember Mortal Kombat 2 on my friend 386DX40 - 4MB, Color monitor. During the gameplay it changed speed from slow to fast. Very jerky, ruins the gameplay completely. Pixels were HUGE.
However, on my friends Amiga 500, on only 1 MB, I admit, a little bit slow loading, and a lot's of disk swapping, but when the round starts, it plays perfectly. No slowdowns, everything smooth, and graphics looked amazing on TV.
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Old 28 June 2020, 17:31   #1185
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I think the disk loading built up the anticipation of playing the game.

Friends and family had consoles which were instant load. I envied it somewhat but didn't resent the Amiga because of it.
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Old 28 June 2020, 17:41   #1186
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I think the disk loading built up the anticipation of playing the game.
Hah... that's funny.
I doubt anyone felt like that.

But joke aside, loading problems are often exaggerated. Many classic and popular games had reasonable loading times. The worst was adventures, and strategies like Civ, or mentioned Mortal Kombat 2... other then that, it was pretty fine, imho.
NOthing wrong with Canon Fodder, Ruff'n'tuble, K240, Arabian Nights, Pang, Arcade pool, Shadow of the Beast 3... and many others...
It's especially fine if you had C64 before Amiga, and you are not only have to wait for the game to be loaded, but also, there's no guaranties that it will work on C64. Oh yeah, and turbo 250 stuff.
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Old 01 July 2020, 14:10   #1187
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When I first heard about it I was pretty amazed. But when I got it I felt it was a bit of a let down. The 1200 was when the Amiga went from leading to chasing the pack.

The A1200 was definitely better than most EGA/VGA 286 PCs people bought at launch, but didn't stand a chance against a decent 386 with VGA and a 16-bit Soundblaster. It was the Atari ST of it's era.

Having said that since, it's definitely one of the most expandable Amigas now, and is great. I still prefer my 4000 for proper work but a 1200 with an 030/50 is probably one of the best gaming options out there.
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Old 01 July 2020, 21:43   #1188
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D4rk3lf: But you were just one tiny insignificant person. The vast majority of people were not like you, and they did want Doom. Just because you did not does not invalidate this.

You were very much in the minority.
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Old 02 July 2020, 00:44   #1189
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I was in the minority as well then because I think Doom was and still is a boring game. The first FPS games that caught my attention were the likes of Soldier of Fortune, Kingpin and then Unreal Tournament. Getting Doom at the time for upgraded Amiga users would have helped immensely though.
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Old 02 July 2020, 01:06   #1190
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I was in the minority as well then because I think Doom was and still is a boring game. The first FPS games that caught my attention were the likes of Soldier of Fortune, Kingpin and then Unreal Tournament. Getting Doom at the time for upgraded Amiga users would have helped immensely though.
I thought that Soldier of Fortune and especially Kingpin marked a real low point for FPS early on. Kingpin really stood out for being a badly implemented idea. Doom was at least fast paced and simple, while Kingpin not only looked bad, but also was boring to play.
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Old 02 July 2020, 08:28   #1191
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You were very much in the minority.
Another on in the minority here. Even when I eventually switched to PC, I used it mostly to play adventure games and RPGs. I started playing Doom on the Amiga quite recently and it is a brilliant game indeed, but not one that would make me disappointed with the Amiga back in the day.
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Old 02 July 2020, 09:46   #1192
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Yeah I think Doom passed me by somehow. I wasnt that bothered about FPS till Half-Life.

What I really wanted to play at the time were better continuations of DuneII/Civilization.

But I had ended up getting an Amiga 600 rather than a 1200 which was almost impossible to upgrade.

I'd have been happy with Command and Conqueror / Red-Alert / Civilization II coming to the Amiga.

I think this could probably have been done on an upgraded 1200.

I agree that on the OS front Workbench still looked much better than Windows until Windows 1995.

Now-adays everyone likes the Amiga 600 as its quite easy to get a classic WHDload up and running on it especially in comparison to the early 500s.

I think at the time everyone knew the 600 was mistake. It certainly was for me. If it hadnt come out im sure I could of convinced my mum to get the 1200.

I think he real issue is the 1200 just needed to come out a year or even 2 earlier.

Until the 1200 really there was no progression since the Amiga 1000/500.
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Old 02 July 2020, 12:47   #1193
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I thought that Soldier of Fortune and especially Kingpin marked a real low point for FPS early on. Kingpin really stood out for being a badly implemented idea. Doom was at least fast paced and simple, while Kingpin not only looked bad, but also was boring to play.
I'm not saying there were great games, I just got into SoF can't explain why (probably easily amused blowing enemy limbs off with the shotgun) and Kingpin got my attention as it was the first game I saw played online with voice comms (around my friends house, I didn't actually play it much). Then UT came out soon afterwards and that ended me as a gamer for years and turned me into a hardcore online clan player (i've never been so addicted to any other game).
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Old 02 July 2020, 14:55   #1194
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So that's four people who don't like Doom vs the 2 or 3 million that did (and that's just actual sales!).

So yes, minority. Just because you in particular don't like something doesn't mean that it's not insanely popular. Doom was. You're all starting to sound like Hewitson now with his Shooter diatribes.
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Old 02 July 2020, 15:24   #1195
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Originally Posted by d4rk3lf View Post
I remember Mortal Kombat 2 on my friend 386DX40 - 4MB, Color monitor. During the gameplay it changed speed from slow to fast. Very jerky, ruins the gameplay completely. Pixels were HUGE.
However, on my friends Amiga 500, on only 1 MB, I admit, a little bit slow loading, and a lot's of disk swapping, but when the round starts, it plays perfectly. No slowdowns, everything smooth, and graphics looked amazing on TV.
This is honestly one of the biggest loads of rubbish I've ever read on here.
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Old 02 July 2020, 15:53   #1196
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I bought Ultima underworld off GOG recently, it came out before doom, and is way more important to where the industry went in my opinion. (although the midi sound effects are god awful)

And we got legends of Valour, which is pretty incredible, even on an A500.
The guy responsible for the Elder scrolls said that legends and Ultima where his two major inspirations.

An A1200 with fast ram, HD floppy and upgraded copper for chunky would have made the A1200 a contender for these sorts of games.
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Old 02 July 2020, 17:22   #1197
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It’s odd to me that people can’t admit how much Doom changed the landscape of gaming simply because they didn’t like it themselves.
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Old 02 July 2020, 17:23   #1198
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D4rk3lf: But you were just one tiny insignificant person. The vast majority of people were not like you, and they did want Doom. Just because you did not does not invalidate this.
I've never stopped wanting Doom. Endlessly replayable.
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Old 02 July 2020, 17:27   #1199
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D4rk3lf: But you were just one tiny insignificant person. The vast majority of people were not like you, and they did want Doom. Just because you did not does not invalidate this.
Yeah, that's ok, I basically agreed.
Just saying it was not for all of us "all about Doom". I guess, some 10-15% of people didn't cared for it at all.

Btw , Doom is amazing game indeed. With very smart level designs, really good gameplay mechanics, but visually, I really don't think much of it.
Ultima underworld that was released before Doom, looked much better to me. Or even Amiga Cytadel, had really interesting graphics.
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Old 03 July 2020, 09:30   #1200
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"Doom changed the landscape of gaming simply because they didn’t like it themselves."

I dont think we're saying that. Im just saying the whole FPS shooter thing kinda past me by until Half Life. Im not saying I didnt like Doom. I do remember playing it on my Uncles PC.

If you were into other genres Doom didnt seem that big a deal.

I actually remember playing Dune II on my Uncles PC more and really wanted to get it for my Amiga 600, I played it to the end on the 600 even !

I think retrospectively it was a big deal. But even when I got my PC in 1995/1996, I didnt get a FPS until I was at University and loads of people were playing Half Life.

I dunno how much of a base the Amiga would of required to limp on, but for some Doom was just another game.
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