Flickerfixer / scandoubler. Is there any point?

[rjd324]

What are the advantages / disadvantages of having a ff/sd if you have a towered a1200 with a mediator and radeon graphics card?

[jotd]

does radeon can redirect games output? if no, you need a scandoubler to play most games that use PAL or NTSC

[rjd324]

Thanks. I am wondering about the set up people use. Do they have a monitor for the output of the sd and another for gfx card. Or do people use 1 and just switch between dvi/vga. Etc?i know its personal preference but I am wondering if I am missing some bit of new hardware which handles the switching automatically etc.

[Vypr]

I use an Indivision AGA and a Voodoo3 on my towered A1200, I initially just switched between the two outputs directly ont he monitor but eventually got a VGA switcher box and a DVI to VGA for the INdivision. Makes switching the two outputs a lot easier. Would prefer tog et a Ratte automonitor switch but can never find anyone selling one.

[rjd324]

Right. So I have vga output only on indivision mk1 and I have vga or dvi from radeon. Never tried the dvi output on that gfx card though. But by the sounds of it you can just get a switcher would could handle two vga inputs and a single vga output and then just use the box to switch?

Thanks.

[Vypr]

Yep,

A box like this is what I use:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[jotd]

I had a switch box with 2 inputs, but after a while the button had a wrong contact. Plus there's a lot of noise because of doubled VGA cables & box. I then got a NEC monitor with 2 inputs. That one was good.

Now I ditched my gfx board config (there were a lot of issues with it) and went back to a desktop A1200 to play games only so I don't need that feature, but nothing beats source select on the monitor (except winuae )

[indigolemon]

I'm using the DVI from the Radeon and the VGA from the Indivision into a Dell monitor - and switching on the monitor itself.

DVI allowed me to drive the monitor at a nice high resolution easier

[trixster]

In my 4000 I'm using a ratte switch with a Radeon 9200 on a Mediator busboard and an Indivision AGA. The Indi AGA scandoubles PAL and NTSC screenmodes - these and the Radeon feed into the Ratte switch and this automatically sends the selected screenmode (AGA PAL/NTSC or RTG depending on what application / game is running) to the LCD.

My AA3000+ has a built-in equivelant to the ratte switch on the motherboard, so it switches between either the 3000's scandoubled AGA output (like the 3000, the AA3000+ has a built-in scandoubler) or the Voodoo3 RTG on the Prometheus busboard.

My 3000 has the built-in scan doubler for ECS PAL or NTSC, and then uses a Monitor Master to automatically switch between ECS, RTG (from a CyberVision 64) or the output from the ISA ATI Mach64 PC graphics card for the GoldenGate 486SXLC/2 bridgeboard.

My A1200 uses an Indivision AGA Mk2 to scandouble AGA PAL and NTSC.

Several other old machines I have - an MSX2, a Sam Coupe, an Enterprise 128 and a Amiga 500 - all use an OSSC scan doubler through a scart switch.

So I'd be knackered without scan doublers!!! If you dont have CRTs then I think they're very necessary, especially if you dont want/have a 15khz BenQ LCD.

[jotd]

TBH there are a lot of 15KHz capable LCDs. ACER has a lot of models. Dell too. An eab thread lists them: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...15Khz+monitors

And you can also use RCA to HDMI through an adapter (okay the result is below par)

[aeberbach]

I have a monitor that can display native Amiga resolutions, a Dell T22i (and you can still buy them new from Dell). It's OK.

What makes an Indivision AGA MK2 far better is the software and extra resolutions it supports.

It looks great on any monitor too, which I value. Having all my Amigas dependent on the continuing operation of one mediocre LCD is kind of worrying.

[torsti76]

Originally Posted by jotd

TBH there are a lot of 15KHz capable LCDs. ACER has a lot of models. Dell too. An eab thread lists them: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...15Khz+monitors

And you can also use RCA to HDMI through an adapter (okay the result is below par)

One of the main differences between a 15kHz capable LCD and a flickerfixer like the Indivision is that the former are generally very bad at displaying interlaced screen modes.
The reason is that modern LCDs are very fast in 'switching on and off' individual pixels, which CRT screens couldn't (and still can't) by design. On a CRT, the exited phosphorus always has a kind of afterglow in the upper tens range of microseconds that makes the interlacing less noticeable. On a modern LCD, a pixel or a whole line of pixels can switch from white to black or back in about 5 ms or even less depending on the kind of panel and controller used.

A flickerfixer eliminates the flicker altogether by buffering every first of two whole screens and combining it with the next one before displaying.
A scandoubler OTOH doesn't buffer anything, it just doubles (or sometimes triples) the horizontal frequency to raise it into a range most monitors can display. It won't eliminate flicker.

Devices like the Indivision do both, flickerfixing and scandoubling, while devices like the OSSC usually only do scandoubling.

There are also very few LCDs that compensate the interlace flicker reasonably well. My main monitor is a Philips 272P7V which is not only one of the very few 4K displays with a VGA input but works exceptionally well for interlaced Amiga screen modes.

All that is only relevant if you care for serious workbench stuff, where higher resolutions are somewhat of a must. If your primary objective is playing games then don't worry too much: They rarely use interlaced screen modes. In case of games you are fine with one of the Acer monitors mentioned before. The V226HQL for instance is a good and cheap choice.

[Daedalus]

It depends entirely on the display. Some de-interlace the signal, some don't. Interlace flicker is pretty nasty on a CRT and an LCD, and neither is something I would consider useable for any extended period.

Typically, you don't get devices that simply flicker fix, as the whole reason for interlace is that there's too much information to fit within a standard 15kHz video frame and so flicker fixers are normally also scandoublers.

[Mad-Matt]

Another solution I used to use although it didn't produce a pretty picture was to view native output through a tv card (through the mediator in my case). This allowed me to have RTG output as well as being able to utilize whdload for playing games on the same screen, in a window even. Upon starting a game, whdload would launch SuperTV in fullscreenmode and close it again when quitting.

[rjd324]

Thanks all. So I bought an MK1 indivision since they are so hard to find and I am hoping it is as good as the mk2!

[Ratte]

You can also use a monitor with two inputs if one input can be set as the "master". The Amiga signal must then be connected to the "master". Then you have to install "SwitchControl" from the Aminet. An experimental version (1.1d DPMS) was uploaded there a long time ago. If the Amiga now switches to RTG, a "Suspend" is sent to the monitor via the Amiga signal. Then the monitor switches from master to slave (RTG).
In some cases, this should be a good replacement for the ratte-switch.

[Jpor]

Originally Posted by Mad-Matt

Another solution I used to use although it didn't produce a pretty picture was to view native output through a tv card (through the mediator in my case). This allowed me to have RTG output as well as being able to utilize whdload for playing games on the same screen, in a window even. Upon starting a game, whdload would launch SuperTV in fullscreenmode and close it again when quitting.

I’m planning on doing this with my Elbox tower system. How do you go about setting up whdload to launch SuperTV with the settings?

[utri007]

Originally Posted by rjd324

What are the advantages / disadvantages of having a ff/sd if you have a towered a1200 with a mediator and radeon graphics card?

Very little, doesn't have a through put. You could have a LCD-TV and use VGA for a Radeon and SCART for a Amiga. Then just use TV-remote to change input.

[Gryfon]

@aeberbach

I've searched for a Dell T22i monitor as you mentioned and cannot find it. Is there another reference or model designation which describes this monitor since if it is still on sale I might be interested in buying one.

[Lord Aga]

Lenovo T22i
Dell 2410