English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Off Topic > OT - General

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 14 May 2020, 06:06   #181
jmmijo
Junior Member
jmmijo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: PDX
Age: 58
Posts: 2,378
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquawkBox View Post
Unlike VMWare or VirtualBox, pcem and its sibling 86box (same shit different gui anubis) need a very powerful host. Number of cores doesn't come into play, efficiency of the emulation rely solely on CPU speed of single core, 4+ GHz should do supposedly.
Unlike VMWare or VirtualBox, pcem allows for full hardware acceleration and 3Dfx support.
Check what this Asian guy experienced (it's the other way round, to virtualize Win9x, that fan of 3D warfare simulations first used pcem then gave a try to VirtualBox after someone replied to his post) :
http://dogsofwarvu.com/forum/index.php?topic=4267.0
There are many old Windows games that will run just fine from within VirtualBox or VMWare but let's say you want to play some old game bearing (relatively speaking) high framerate count e.q. Need for Speed ~ Porsche 2000, pcem supporters will try to convince you it's the best thing next to sliced bread to run such games (think cycle exact mode for WinUAE). Earlier on, I mentioned a few games which didn't need anything special hardware (Earthworm Jim, Pitfall etc.) and needless to say even fast games can be played when properly patched, but not all of them. In short, if you're not interested into that mundane controversy involving the few old PC (and more specifically post-MS DOS games) games that escaped GoG clutches and virtualize mostly for work, don't bother.

The tutorial I linked to offers its readers to download S3 drivers (along with Voodoo ones) in ISO format. There are two S3 graphics cards to choose from in pcem, at first I had chosen [PCI] S3 ViRGE/DX and maybe I got it wrong with install procedure since two S3 entries popped up in device manager. As I said, I could boot into safe mode, nothing more. I removed both entries, then rebooted to no avail. I started all over again and this time, went for [PCI] S3 ViRGE/DX (VBE 2.0). I installed DirectX 7, and, this time, I managed to install the driver that was included with said ISO.
Point taken, must be why I keep so many LEGACY PC parts around along with my real C64/C128/Amiga computers and accessories.

I've been toying with using an older P4 notebook and making it into a Windows 2000/XP machine just to play a few older games.

I also have a nice P4 Desktop machine with ISA slots for using old school sound cards like my Ensonique Soundscape card.
jmmijo is offline  
Old 14 May 2020, 13:25   #182
Anubis
Na'vi Gamer

Anubis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hometree, Pandora
Age: 47
Posts: 2,960
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquawkBox View Post
Unlike VMWare or VirtualBox, pcem and its sibling 86box (same shit different gui anubis) need a very powerful host. Number of cores doesn't come into play, efficiency of the emulation rely solely on CPU speed of single core, 4+ GHz should do supposedly.
Unlike VMWare or VirtualBox, pcem allows for full hardware acceleration and 3Dfx support.
Check what this Asian guy experienced (it's the other way round, to virtualize Win9x, that fan of 3D warfare simulations first used pcem then gave a try to VirtualBox after someone replied to his post) :
http://dogsofwarvu.com/forum/index.php?topic=4267.0
There are many old Windows games that will run just fine from within VirtualBox or VMWare but let's say you want to play some old game bearing (relatively speaking) high framerate count e.q. Need for Speed ~ Porsche 2000, pcem supporters will try to convince you it's the best thing next to sliced bread to run such games (think cycle exact mode for WinUAE). Earlier on, I mentioned a few games which didn't need anything special hardware (Earthworm Jim, Pitfall etc.) and needless to say even fast games can be played when properly patched, but not all of them. In short, if you're not interested into that mundane controversy involving the few old PC (and more specifically post-MS DOS games) games that escaped GoG clutches and virtualize mostly for work, don't bother.

The tutorial I linked to offers its readers to download S3 drivers (along with Voodoo ones) in ISO format. There are two S3 graphics cards to choose from in pcem, at first I had chosen [PCI] S3 ViRGE/DX and maybe I got it wrong with install procedure since two S3 entries popped up in device manager. As I said, I could boot into safe mode, nothing more. I removed both entries, then rebooted to no avail. I started all over again and this time, went for [PCI] S3 ViRGE/DX (VBE 2.0). I installed DirectX 7, and, this time, I managed to install the driver that was included with said ISO.
You are entitled to your opinion no mater how wrong you are.

I never said emulating Pentium 1 and Win9x / Win 3.11 is easy and does not require some knowledge about computers/hardware/OS. It is just as it was with PC back in day - some people knew how to setup DOS and get all memory you need to run all DOS titles, it still stands today.

For all other issues, use DOSBox, it has 640KB memory by default.
Anubis is offline  
Old 17 May 2020, 16:32   #183
SquawkBox
Speedbump gimme goosebump
SquawkBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: France
Age: 46
Posts: 156
Send a message via ICQ to SquawkBox
Yup, I've noticed that you posted some sound advice in pcem thread about using it in conjunction with DOS. Nice of you, though that's not exactly what I have been meaning to achieve throughout this ongoing thread. Since I usually load / play my favorite DOS games through DOSBox / DFend reloaded (or some other frontend, DFend has its share of issues, you realize that it does when scratching the surface), that modularity of pcem when it comes to conventional memory and other DOS intricacies are not top priority. This said, you'll be the first to know if I change my mind and start to migrate these few DOS games (e.q. Carmageddon I, Redneck Rampage...) to pcem / 86Box.

Like it or not, my main concern atm is achieving to play 64-bit Win7-Win10 unfriendly early Windows titles (note that some of these games might bear DOS versions) assuming running these games with VirtualBox would prove unsatisfying to some degree. Again, I understand the argument about VirtualBox not offering full hardware acceleration. It doesn't imply it doesn't offer some, "good enough" partial hw acceleration, does it ? e.q. in VirtualBox, Pitfall scrolls just fine on top of Windows XP. If you don't want to look into it, you will have to take my word for it, I guess.
Btw, it's worth noting that Pitfall slowdowns with actual hardware / in pcem are there for a reason, have in mind said game only requires 256 colors. A pop up will show up each time one runs the game in high color depth. In 16-bit color depth, even a very powerful host ought to run it slow, switch to 256 color mode, problem solved. Amiga users are aware that accurate emulation also implies accurate reproduction of bugs, guru meditations and what not. So maybe, that should strike as unnatural that VirtualBox may run Pitfall at full speed in 16/24-bit color depth, but who will complain about it ? At least, playing what can be played with VirtualBox (or VMWare for the matter) will put less strain on host CPU.
OK, done with what may seem like comparing apples to oranges somehow, now what about having me relating some of the progress I've made to emulate Windows 95 OSR 2.5 in 86Box, only this time a bit at decent speed ? But first, I should tell you I took the chance to install the unofficial Windows 95 Service Pack (along with unofficial USB drivers) for a more complete Windows 95 experience, here it is :
http://erpman1.tripod.com/w9xmeupd.html


To achieve decent speed when running my virtual Win95 PC, this time I used :
The Core2 optimized build of 86Box. Note that many other families of CPUs have their own optimized build (Haswell, Skylake...) :
https://github.com/86Box/86Box/releases
Scroll down to "Which ZIP should I download ?"


Remember these mostly dispensable (except SpeedFan) freebies that were supposed to monitor the CPU when its heatsink was suspected of not pumping enough air into it ? So ladies and gents, here comes Amn Refrigerator 3.0 aka AmnHLT. Simply put, Amn Refrigerator is a small free utility intended for software cooling of the CPU during idle times. While such software cooling solution probably did more harm than good in our machines of the old days, amazingly enough, it does work its magic when run from Windows 95 inside 86Box (glad someone came up with that suggestion in one of these "pcem runs slow on my computer" threads).

From this point on, you might wonder why aim for "beefy" Pentium 75 emulation since an i7 or a 4+ GHz CPU is recommended ? Indeed, even with actual hardware in mind, a 486DX2/66 with a mere 16 MB of ram should do the job when it comes to using Windows 95 at decent speed. Hence, lowering virtual PC specs / target speed ought to make Windows fly like greased lightning, right ? Well, I made a few attempts (e.q. Pentium 60 on top of a Socket 4 LX mobo) in that direction. It was faster all right (don't try that at home, actually, anything below Pentium 133 is more or less rubbish for serious PC retro-gaming these days) alas, adjusted values from BIOS setup would return to default without warning after each reboot with that specific assemblage. Now, I need to experiment with more Win9x games.

Last edited by SquawkBox; 18 May 2020 at 00:50.
SquawkBox is offline  
Old 19 May 2020, 02:38   #184
SquawkBox
Speedbump gimme goosebump
SquawkBox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: France
Age: 46
Posts: 156
Send a message via ICQ to SquawkBox
Guys, have a look at this bad boy :
https://github.com/drfrag666/ZDoom-CL/releases

ZDoom Classic is a fork of ZDoom 2.1.4 for Windows 9x and 486 (unlike other source ports, which have discontinued Win 95 / 98 support for quite some time in favor of XP and up). At first, I thought I would grab Doom95 from the Collector's Edition, but it's probably rather limited in scope. ZDoom can be unzipped anywhere, it doesn't require any installation, just a legit .wad file. So, if you're eager to reproduce, grab one from here, adjust resolution, configure controls and there you go! In the following capture, you can see me playing Doom II with that port running smoothly in Windows 95 from within 86Box :


Since we're evoking Bill Gates plans for Covid in some other OT thread, I thought I would share with you this short and rarely seen MS promotional video :

[ Show youtube player ]

It was made to bring publishers to gradually drop DOS support in favor of Windows APIs, more specifically DirectX's. As some of you may know, Gabe Newell, co-founder of Valve Software, was a member of MS developers team by then. Among other productions, he was in charge of said Doom port, along with another MS project manager :
https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom95

Last edited by SquawkBox; 19 May 2020 at 05:16.
SquawkBox is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 06:48   #185
Hewitson
Registered User
Hewitson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Age: 37
Posts: 3,732
Wow, that video is a real embarrassment. Totally cringeworthy.
Hewitson is offline  
Old 21 May 2020, 18:49   #186
Shoonay
Global Caturator
Shoonay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Porando
Posts: 6,052
Creampied Gates is better, it was even featured on the Amiga Magazyn Cover CD here!
Shoonay is online now  
Old 01 June 2020, 03:59   #187
sonninnos
Commodork

sonninnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Finland
Posts: 36
I liked the part with the magic trigger finger.
sonninnos is offline  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bad first disk Xanaa support.Games 3 11 May 2014 20:34
Bad ROM or something else? JDunlap support.Hardware 6 23 January 2008 08:11
Bad graphics? Korgy support.WinUAE 10 06 June 2006 11:21
[perhaps bad section] bobbybearing request.Old Rare Games 1 11 October 2003 17:45
Bad MCP, BAD! Akira support.Apps 14 22 August 2003 16:23

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Page generated in 0.07809 seconds with 14 queries