SuperLeague Changes - Pre-Vote Discussion

[john4p]

Originally Posted by mihcael

The difference would be from round to round.

But it still wouldn't make sense. You could just submit a 1pt-token score in a highly popular round and get that huge bonus. If everyone gets the bonus anyway it won't have any effect on the league.
Harry's reasoning however does make sense.

Originally Posted by mihcael

30% more points are on offer since changing from a fixed system. Nobody really noticed that.

I surely did when ED overtook my score that I accumulated over four years.
But it's not as drastic as having 100% score increases.

[mihcael]

Originally Posted by john4p

But it still wouldn't make sense. You could just submit a 1pt-token score in a highly popular round and get that huge bonus. If everyone gets the bonus anyway it won't have any effect on the league.
Harry's reasoning however does make sense.

Yes, that hadn't clicked to me yet.

What is Harry's system.

Originally Posted by john4p

I surely did when ED overtook my score that I accumulated over four years.
But it's not as drastic as having 100% score increases.

I could stop providing career stats?

[mihcael]

To actually think about how a player based bonus might work it has to advantage the higher players. Maybe like so....?

[john4p]

Originally Posted by mihcael

What is Harry's system.

He made it specifically for the old 15-12-10-system which gave points to 12 players. If more than 12 players would participate then for every additional player the score would rise by 1 so that every place gets points and every place gets a different amount.
Our new suggested fixed system (20-17-15-13-12-11-10-...) gives points to 16 players meaning now we'd award additional points when more than 16 players participate.
Example: 19 players take part in a round, then the points would be:
23-20-18-16-15-14-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

I don't think it'd be really necessary though since 16 places are enough for our purposes. We could just award 20-17-15-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2 for the first 15 places and 16th to 19th place all would get 1 point.

Originally Posted by mihcael

I could stop providing career stats?

Yes that'd be a possible solution.

[mihcael]

That looks simliar to what I cam up with, just with 1/2 point per additional player.

Originally Posted by john4p

I don't think it'd be really necessary though since 16 places are enough for our purposes. We could just award 20-17-15-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2 for the first 15 places and 16th to 19th place all would get 1 point.

Although this wasn't a particularly inspiring season, there was a round that had 25 players. Meaning the last 10 players only get 1 point. You could jump from 25th to 16th and still only get 1 point.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by mihcael

To actually think about how a player based bonus might work it has to advantage the higher players. Maybe like so....?

Yes, that'd make sense. But it'd also just increase frustration in the middle and bottom parts of the table and might even lead to the death of this competition. We don't wanna drive away anyone.

Originally Posted by mihcael

Although this wasn't a particularly inspiring season, there was a round that had 25 players. Meaning the last 10 players only get 1 point. You could jump from 25th to 16th and still only get 1 point.

Just had a look at Apidya's table. The bottom 10 quite differed in their scores. Okay, so we should maybe really go with Harry's modification if we decide to do fixed points.

[mihcael]

How about Dynamic + podium bonus

[Biscuit]

Yikes.

I made a suggestion for scoring on the Lemon thread (which I will reiterate below) but now I've read the thread here my thoughts are a little clearer.

I agree that having the top league players running away with the championship points is not the best scenario. I think the flaw in the current scoring system that leads to this is because we use a fixed and score based system. With both having 10 points difference between first and last it increases the gap in points available more than is necessary.

I think we should have the scoring based heavily on one or the other. Not both. And keep things simple.

My suggestion is. Give everyone 1 point for taking part. If you get a top 3 place you get an extra 1 point. And the rest is made up of a score multiple like now. 1st place gets 10 points and everyone else gets points relative to the ratio of the 1st place score. eg half the score gets 5 points. That would mean first place gets a maximum of 12 points and what you score creates the bulk of the champ points you receive. People can still build a lead but the impact would be less than now. And frankly scoring well should earn you something.

The best alternative for me would be a pure fixed system of 12 points through 2 points for the top 11, and 1 point for everyone else.

I think the 16 player fixed point system in option 3 of vote 1 gives too many points with larger than necessary gaps.

With this in mind, as it stands, I will probably vote for the 75/25 split.

I'm starting to see the reason behind bonus points but I'm not convinced they are necessary or would have a meaningful impact. I'd only experiment with them on a purely fixed point system. So I don't think I'll vote for them.

[mihcael]

Originally Posted by Biscuit

The best alternative for me would be a pure fixed system of 12 points through 2 points for the top 11, and 1 point for everyone else.

So in the round I highlighted above where there was 25 players, you would have 14 players getting 1 point.

[john4p]

Originally Posted by mihcael

How about Dynamic + podium bonus

That's basically the same as fixed with Harry's modification (only that your suggestion also reduces the highest points if there are few players). This extreme example doesn't look appealing at all. I think it's best if 1st place always gets the same amount of points each round.

[mihcael]

Extreme? It might have the added benefit that people would would stop voting for shit games.

Seriously contemplating starting the "No Driving Game League"

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by mihcael

So in the round I highlighted above where there was 25 players, you would have 14 players getting 1 point.

Looking at your dynamic + podium. Make it fixed points based on 35 players (35 points - 1 point) plus the podium bonus and I'm in agreement. I don't like it being dynamic based on number of players because of the effect of playing in popular rounds boosting scores.

I still like my suggestion (naturally ) but a fixed system that keeps championship points close is my preferred alternative. I'd take the 35 point version over my 12 point one.

[Biscuit]

Although the most players we've had in a round is 25. So 25 points may do.

[Biscuit]

Although..... again.....

Having a 25 point fixed system will create a points boost for players in unpopular rounds.

This is getting tough.

I prefer my idea. lol. Use scores.

[john4p]

The vast majority of rounds have between 15 and 20 players so 20 points for 1st place works very well.

[mihcael]

How about random points? I dont think anyone has suggested that.

[DH]

Can I make a suggestion

Perhaps the bonus point should be based off how many consecutive rounds have been played by each member?

12 rounds per year, 12 points maximum can be got, miss a round, back to 1 bonus point and start climbing again.

Just a thought and I am in no real position to make any suggestions at all.

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by john4p

The vast majority of rounds have between 15 and 20 players so 20 points for 1st place works very well.

True. 20 players with 20 points - 1 point makes sense to me.

Though I still like the idea of a score heavy dynamic system.

[Biscuit]

Oh, and get rid of the podium bonus on purely fixed points. lol.

I'm like a yo-yo, I know.

[Biscuit]

You guys all make such good points you make me change my mind a lot.

To clarify.

I still like my idea best. Just as I wrote upthread.

My second favourite option would be Top 20 players get 20 points through 1 point. With no bonuses of any sort.

With that in mind, from the options as they are, I will probably vote for 75/25 and no bonus points.

There. I did it. I'm gonna finish my lunch now.