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Old 28 February 2010, 03:09   #1
Kakaboy
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Kickstart 2.05 on A500

Hi everyone,

This is my first post and unfortunately its a cry for help .

I have Amiga500 rev5 which was working fine with 1.3 . I decided to swap the kickstart rom 1.3 for 2.05 . When I put it all together being unaware of any mod needed for rev5 boards , it did not power up .

I think it may be a faulty power supply . I did put the old 1.3 rom back in and still no power .

Could changing roms have had something to do with the demise of my poor PSU ? Or has it just had its day and its all a coincidence ?

Now assuming it is the power supply and I get it replaced , not sure from where but about my A500 , do I need to do anything as far as modding the chip for it to run on rev5 ?

My main goal is to upgrade to 2.05 so I can run SCSI HDD off my A590 HD controller . Part of this HD upgrade is to try and run WHDload and install games on the HDD .

I have the usual 512k expansion and 1mb that comes with the A590 .

Am I barking up the wrong tree with this ? Is my goal unrealistic with my Amig500 ?

Any input would be greatly appreciated
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Old 28 February 2010, 03:20   #2
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Your goal is fine, unless the ROM was some strange one with a short between the +5V and Ground pin on it, it couldn't have fried your PSU. I seriously doubt that!

Besides, there's a fuse in the PSU. If something catastrophic has happened, either the fuse is blown, or there are heavy burn marks around a resistor or other in it.

You should be able to autoboot fine from the A590 with 1.3 ROMs - if you are upgrading I would recommend kick 3.1 (the A500/A600/A2000-specific one) over 2.0. Only old foxes like me who need it for code compatibility testing use it

I think you need to modify the A590 if you want to run it without its own PSU, someone else could verify that. If that's what you've done (connected it without its PSU and without doing the mod), it's likely you've simply overloaded the PSU and the fuse has blown. Do the mod or connect a PSU for the A590, and replace the fuse with a like, if that's the case.

If you have a multimeter, you could connect the PSU to the Amiga and measure voltages on some easy to measure point, like the floppy power connector. But it's easy to short pins if you measure directly on some hard to measure point, like the power connector itself!
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Old 28 February 2010, 03:44   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
Your goal is fine, unless the ROM was some strange one with a short between the +5V and Ground pin on it, it couldn't have fried your PSU. I seriously doubt that!

Besides, there's a fuse in the PSU. If something catastrophic has happened, either the fuse is blown, or there are heavy burn marks around a resistor or other in it.

You should be able to autoboot fine from the A590 with 1.3 ROMs - if you are upgrading I would recommend kick 3.1 (the A500/A600/A2000-specific one) over 2.0. Only old foxes like me who need it for code compatibility testing use it

I think you need to modify the A590 if you want to run it without its own PSU, someone else could verify that. If that's what you've done (connected it without its PSU and without doing the mod), it's likely you've simply overloaded the PSU and the fuse has blown. Do the mod or connect a PSU for the A590, and replace the fuse with a like, if that's the case.

If you have a multimeter, you could connect the PSU to the Amiga and measure voltages on some easy to measure point, like the floppy power connector. But it's easy to short pins if you measure directly on some hard to measure point, like the power connector itself!
The PSU internally looks fine there is no obvious burn makrs and resistors seem ok with no cold solder joints and the fuse is ok having checked with multimeter . I have also checked the PSU from the Amiga connector end and I dont seem to be getting any decent voltage from the +5 or +12v pins , power supply turned on off course .

The 2.05 chip seems un modded , I have read that revision 5 boards need to have 2.04 chip modded with pins bridged etc , but cannot find anything on 2.05 . I think I might look into 3.1 instead . I wouldnt be changing the kickstart but I want to add 2gig SCSI drive and apparently 1.3 only sees up to 512mb . Is that right or am I getting things confused ?

The A590 has its own power supply which I leave on and it shuts down when I turn off the main supply off on the A500 . I havent done anything with the A590 yet .

I will get some one else to confirm if PSU is actually dead before I go any further .

Thanks for your speedy reply
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Old 28 February 2010, 04:14   #4
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Ok I have connected A500 with power supply and A590 with its own power supply . The A590 power supply switched to ON position and so now I switch the A500 power supply to ON position and the A590 pwer light comes on but the A500 does not . Can I assume the A500 power supply still works if it starts the A590 while connected with the A500 ?

The A590 does not boot thou only the power led is on . The A500 seems un responsive .

I managed to get good 12 & 5volt readings from the PSU . Will have to look for a new board now . I just hope the 2.05 rom hasnt done anything to the board as I would be reluctant to upgrade the replacement board . The A500 board did have some rust spots on a couple of resistors which I treated with rust converter to clean it up . Not sure if that also has something to do with killing board

UPDATE : Board not dead after all . I re installed 1.3 and turned the power on . I still had nothing but I noticed the caps lock light come on when I hit the power switch . So I just left it on for a while and about 2 mins later I heard the drive ticking and the red led was on .
Dont understand what is happening here but glad all the same . As I have mentioned before DOES the 2.05 kickstart rom need any hacking as far as pins being jumped for rev5 motherboard ?
I cant seem to get a clear answer for this .

Any help greatly appreciated

Last edited by Kakaboy; 28 February 2010 at 07:41.
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Old 28 February 2010, 08:21   #5
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A clear answer for you: everything after 1.3 needs the jumper added to the kickstart ROM in order to work in a Rev 5 A500.

Add the jumper, plug it in, ready.

Leaving the jumper out will not break anything, only cause a colourful crash on bootup.
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Old 28 February 2010, 09:15   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jope View Post
A clear answer for you: everything after 1.3 needs the jumper added to the kickstart ROM in order to work in a Rev 5 A500.

Add the jumper, plug it in, ready.

Leaving the jumper out will not break anything, only cause a colourful crash on bootup.
Thanks for replying,

Is that bridge pin 1 & 31 ?

I have purchased another mobo as mine keeps crashing . Will post back soon .
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Old 28 February 2010, 10:27   #7
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That should be sufficient, yes.
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Old 28 February 2010, 18:10   #8
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For the 512Mb trouble: upgrading the Amiga ROM will not cure the problem.

The ROM version in the A590 itself is the cause of the 512Mb "barrier". Replace the 6.0 ROM with the latest 7.0 counterpart. That way you can use an HD up to 8Gb (using OS3.5/3.9, which I strongly dis-recommend you to do). But you can use up to 4Gb (logically formatted = available to the system) in an HD with up to 8Gb (physical size, up to half of it really used). Not bad for a humble A500!

If you don't have a EPROM burner, ask someone here who have.

BTW: look for another 1Mb for your A590. It accept 2Mb of RAM.
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Old 28 February 2010, 18:14   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaboy View Post
I dont seem to be getting any decent voltage from the +5 or +12v pins , power supply turned on off course .
I still think you should have power from PSU to Amiga before you expect anything from any motherboard

But at the same time it's very strange, it says here that A590 detect power on on the A500 and turns on automatically then. I don't doubt your veracity, but a caps lock lighting up should indicate you have +5V. Does it power up normally with 1.3 if you disconnect the A590? There is no magic logic in the A500 to stop power-up if something is wrong, like on PC motherboards.

How do you check that power comes on apart from caps lock led? Connected to a screen? If the screen doesn't 'hiccup' on power on (TVs usually also autoswitch to some aux channel if it gets a signal).

It takes a second or two before the power led fires up. If you believe everything is working you could wait for at least 30 mins, in case the 'wait for slow harddisks' jumper is set in the A590. You could also check if the A590 has already been modded for internal power (solder job near Zorro connector iirc). If it has been modded, then it is of course wrong to connect the A590 PSU.

I think you'll find it on your own if you test and exclude possible causes Good old computers can often take a beating so I'm sure your chances are good to get the current one working - the only killer I can see is some PSU vs PSU issue as mentioned above.
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Old 28 February 2010, 22:28   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkauer View Post
For the 512Mb trouble: upgrading the Amiga ROM will not cure the problem.

The ROM version in the A590 itself is the cause of the 512Mb "barrier". Replace the 6.0 ROM with the latest 7.0 counterpart. That way you can use an HD up to 8Gb (using OS3.5/3.9, which I strongly dis-recommend you to do). But you can use up to 4Gb (logically formatted = available to the system) in an HD with up to 8Gb (physical size, up to half of it really used). Not bad for a humble A500!

If you don't have a EPROM burner, ask someone here who have.

BTW: look for another 1Mb for your A590. It accept 2Mb of RAM.
Yes thats exactly my plan I have ordered 2 7.0 roms and another 1mb ram chips to bring it to a total of 2mb in A590 to go with a seagate hawk scsi 2gig HDD . I know I need to set jumpers to scsi too so that should sort out my HDD issues . The only thing im uncertain about is the kickstart to drive the 2 gig ? is it all in the way its partioned ? can the humble 1.3 still see the 2 gig and work well with it ?

Goal is to run WHDload and install games to HDD .

Last edited by Kakaboy; 28 February 2010 at 22:43.
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Old 28 February 2010, 22:39   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
I still think you should have power from PSU to Amiga before you expect anything from any motherboard

But at the same time it's very strange, it says here that A590 detect power on on the A500 and turns on automatically then. I don't doubt your veracity, but a caps lock lighting up should indicate you have +5V. Does it power up normally with 1.3 if you disconnect the A590? There is no magic logic in the A500 to stop power-up if something is wrong, like on PC motherboards.

How do you check that power comes on apart from caps lock led? Connected to a screen? If the screen doesn't 'hiccup' on power on (TVs usually also autoswitch to some aux channel if it gets a signal).

It takes a second or two before the power led fires up. If you believe everything is working you could wait for at least 30 mins, in case the 'wait for slow harddisks' jumper is set in the A590. You could also check if the A590 has already been modded for internal power (solder job near Zorro connector iirc). If it has been modded, then it is of course wrong to connect the A590 PSU.

I think you'll find it on your own if you test and exclude possible causes Good old computers can often take a beating so I'm sure your chances are good to get the current one working - the only killer I can see is some PSU vs PSU issue as mentioned above.
I have narrowed down to the PSU functioning . I tested the signal ground and alternatively with +5 & +12v on the amiga connector end . So its deff not the PSU . The amiga on the other hand is a diff story . I left the amiga with the power turned on with A590 disconnected . I got nothing for a while and after a few minutes the red led turns on and the sound of the floppy ticking .
So I proceeded to boot something off the floppy and it seemed to load and run , so I left it running for a while and suddenly the amiga resets itself or reboots , so all leds off screen off then restarts and proceeds to boot again . I know im not the first one to want for a reset button for the amiga but this is NOT my doing .
Would this be a kickstart issue or something wrong with the motherboard ?. I am no techy as far as electronics go so its a little beyond me .
I did buy another A500 motherboard with chips just in case this one has issues .
Im kicking myself now for even attempting to upgrade the kickstart as it worked fine before .

Also is there any differences between 2.04 & 2.05 kickstart ? I have broken one of the pins on my 2.05 (might have to try and solder pin ) Im looking into getting a kickswitch and having 1.3 and 2.05 on my amiga .(2.05 is only so I can run the 2gig HDD properly for WHDload)

Any ideas guys ?

Last edited by Kakaboy; 28 February 2010 at 22:47.
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Old 28 February 2010, 23:07   #12
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Can you read the version number on the 2.0 kickstart? It should read 37.175.

For WHDload I still recommend kickstart 3.1, make sure you get revision 40.63 if you get one. The other guys will tell you if you need to do something special to make it work in A500. Do you know which revision motherboard you are getting?
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Old 28 February 2010, 23:32   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
Can you read the version number on the 2.0 kickstart? It should read 37.175.

For WHDload I still recommend kickstart 3.1, make sure you get revision 40.63 if you get one. The other guys will tell you if you need to do something special to make it work in A500. Do you know which revision motherboard you are getting?
Yes it does read 37.175 from memory (im at work atm)
The motherboard is same as the one I have now rev5 A500 .
Should I just bite the bullet and get 3.1 , as having the switch will give me the best of both worlds .

Thers conflicting opinions on using 3.1 or not . Is it mainly the compatibilty issue with games ?
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Old 28 February 2010, 23:46   #14
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Originally Posted by Kakaboy View Post
Thers conflicting opinions on using 3.1 or not . Is it mainly the compatibilty issue with games ?
If your goal is to run WHDLoad and load games from HDD, then you don't need to worry about the compatibility of Kickstart 3.1
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Old 01 March 2010, 00:01   #15
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3.1 will be nicer than 1.3, but it is not needed for old 1.3 games era. The HD will run OK using 1.3, no need 3.1 to make it run in its full "glory".
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Old 01 March 2010, 00:26   #16
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That is very true. But take it from one who would love to run 1.3 and nothing else - you'll have a much easier time finding compatible commands and libs (spending a lot less time cursing) if you go 3.1 than 1.3. Kick 2.0 really offers no advantages over either of them, unless you have a specific piece of hardware that only works under 2.0. But this is very rare, as the old hardware that supports old kickstarts either support kick 1.3 or both 1.3 and 2.0.

Hell, even the list command from Workbench 2.0 can't be used if you switch to 1.3.

I have 1.3/2.0 on my A500, with ClassicWB (based on WB 3.1) and WHDload - and it doesn't like it. Previously I tried WB 2.0, 2.1 etc and it didn't like that either. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I have a hybrid system, with a strange mix of Kick 2.0/68000/68040 compatible OS-commands and utitilies that at least lets me start games via WHDload. With some extra commands thrown in for running real file demos off the harddisk in Kick 1.3 mode.

Considering how well ClassicWB and WHDload and... 'everything' works with Kick 3.1/WB3.1 in WinUAE and my A600 and A1200, I think I can save you a lot of frustration with this tip - I think at least those who have Kick/WB3.1 will agree they have relatively little trouble finding working solutions from Aminet, Amigakit, etc.

Masochistically I won't change to kick 3.1 on my A500 like I have on my other machines - but that's only cos it's a coding machine and I need at least one machine with this kick, for umm "worst case testing".


Maybe it's possible to make WHDload run under WB 1.3, maybe there's a guide on how to do that somewhere. But I have my doubts.


If you really want to repair your kick 2.0, make sure you check that the socket isn't damaged (take out the missing leg carefully), nip off the rom leg where it gets thinner. Take a similar thickness leg from another chip, nip it off right at where it goes into the chip, flatten off any nip-marks so it can be soldered tightly onto the rom's half leg.

Make sure there's no solder on the part of the leg that goes in the socket.

If you're soldering something thicker on, you risk bending the socket recepticle so the socket is damaged. If you just solder on a thin wire, you might not get full contact.
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Old 01 March 2010, 00:37   #17
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Sheesh, I'm wearing my wits and fingers down writing all this junk just to seem balanced.

If you want my opinion:
Kickswitch 1.3/3.1 - great idea. Shove in ClassicWB (from WB 3.1) and WHDload in there and you have a good games machine (if you have fastram in the A590) - especially since you can switch to kick 1.3 to run games from floppy too.

And should you happen to need some command or lib from Aminet, it will work. SUPERWIN!
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Old 01 March 2010, 00:40   #18
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Thanks for everyones input , appreciate it .

So in a nutshell 3.1 is more compatible with running WHDload on my A500 .
2.04 or .05 will give me nothing of great value as I already have 1.3 which does a good job with classic amiga games .

Well i guess If I have a switch and the choice to run 2 kickroms then I will prob go with 3.1 and 1.3 .

Whdload with 3.1
Floppies with 1.3

I dont really want to wast time and put something in of no great value (2.05)

Thanks for all yor help guys , I guess I need to look for kick 3.1 and WB 3.1 . Are these roms region specific ?

Karl
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Old 01 March 2010, 00:44   #19
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Quote:
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I guess I need to look for kick 3.1 and WB 3.1 . Are these roms region specific ?
They're not region specific, but machine specific. For example, a 3.1 ROM for an A4000 or A1200 is not compatible with the A500.

Edit: You may be able to get a WB3.1 set of disks bundled with a Kickstart 3.1 ROM cheaper than buying them individually.
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Old 01 March 2010, 00:45   #20
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Quote:
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Sheesh, I'm wearing my wits and fingers down writing all this junk just to seem balanced.

If you want my opinion:
Kickswitch 1.3/3.1 - great idea. Shove in ClassicWB (from WB 3.1) and WHDload in there and you have a good games machine (if you have fastram in the A590) - especially since you can switch to kick 1.3 to run games from floppy too.

And should you happen to need some command or lib from Aminet, it will work. SUPERWIN!
You the MAN! Photon great conclusion

I will hassle you guys soon on WHDload etc . I understand that WHDload creates its own emulated environment to run games .

BTW the chips pin snapped when I tried to straighten it , socket is fine , thanks for the tip .
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