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View Poll Results: Do you like or dislike Cloanto?
Dislike 70 47.95%
Like 76 52.05%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 13 March 2019, 13:39   #61
OlafSch
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Originally Posted by DamienD View Post
Agreed, I didn't make the thread / poll though...

Would be better if the question was: Do you support Cloanto / Amiga Forever?
or "Is Amigaforever something for you"

For longterm user using real hardware it is of course not but for those it was never designed. When I came back I started with it because it is a easy and cheap way to get back on amiga. And then (after some time) I did my own projects. Others perhaps stay with amigaforever because it is all they need.
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Old 13 March 2019, 13:42   #62
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I like the rp9-format, as I like to keep each game as a separate file with a nice-looking screenshot as an icon in windows explorer. Also, by keeping manuals, covers, etc. hidden in a zip-file, the game folders seem more tidy

For a user like me, who just wants to play some old games from time to time, Cloanto's product works great.
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Old 13 March 2019, 14:07   #63
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Originally Posted by OlafSch View Post
Of course that could also be done as a commercial project but then who will spend the money for it? At least as long the developers do it not for free like with 3.1.4
I am quite sure developers like Olaf and Thomas would continue the development if they get paid based on sales for example.
3.1.4 showed that people are still interested and ready to support it.

BUT without clear leadership, there will be one big mess.
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Old 13 March 2019, 14:11   #64
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Originally Posted by ExiE View Post
I am quite sure developers like Olaf and Thomas would continue the development if they get paid based on sales for example.
3.1.4 showed that people are still interested and ready to support it.

BUT without clear leadership, there will be one big mess.
Olaf and Thomas did it because they had sources already ready and wanted to make them available. That is gone now, next update would certainly need payment (if at all)
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Old 13 March 2019, 16:03   #65
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At this point I probably dislike all the "big" companies in the Amiga scene equally. Bunch of blood sucking corpse eating vultures.
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Old 13 March 2019, 19:35   #66
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kolla gets banned for being "too negative" - but some jerk who just registered here, lists "disliking Cloanto" as his occupation and has links to pirated Cloanto IP in his profile gets to start a thread that results in four pages of Cloanto bashing.

WTF?
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Old 13 March 2019, 20:00   #67
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I assume you didn't read much here. Kolla derailed several threads and ignored many warnings via pm.
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Old 13 March 2019, 22:52   #68
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I dont really like them, but thats mainly because they dont do anything of interest to me,but wuth the cease and desist faff with cloato and all the others Its put me off even more.
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Old 13 March 2019, 22:54   #69
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Originally Posted by OlafSch View Post
it only shows that 30 users of eab (of perhaps 20.000 amiga users if you look at facebook) "hate" a company. It says more about the 30 users than about the general situation.
So now you know that 30 EAB users are on the dark side of the force AND you, with your "like" vote, you are on the light side...

More seriously, I am assuming that a lot of people have voted based on their experience with Cloanto's product or Cloanto's attitude over the years or Cloanto's business model or etc. .

But at the end, it's not because they do not share your opinion that they are wrong. They only have a different experience/opinion than yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlafSch View Post
[...] The package Cloanto offers is mainly for beginners and people who only want to use amiga in emulation now and then. [...]
WinUAE / FS-UAE are easy enough to be handled by "beginners". Saying that AmigaForever IS mainly for "beginners" is a nonsense.
AF is only another choice that may suits some people needs.
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Old 13 March 2019, 23:48   #70
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I have paid for Amiga Forever and WHDLoad because I think the Amiga is worth money - or it's worthless. If you want to pay $0, I'm not on your side.

But I don't know how to vote until I know whether you get the files and ROM images unencrypted and unsandboxed. (I've been told 3.1.4 Kick/WB comes unencrypted?)

It's just a practical thing. Those who care enough to swap out the Kickstart and OS at all should be able to pay a modest license, and then get their Amigas working.
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Old 14 March 2019, 00:03   #71
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I’ve bought Amiga Forever several times and am happy with it.
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Old 14 March 2019, 00:45   #72
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AF IS nonsense. I can bundle WinUAE with far better front end GUIs, all ready to play for beginners. It also leaves the normal F12 options intact, and of course nobody uses this pointless RP9 format (a plain zip archive). Jesus, this Amiga Forever player doesn't make sense at all.

What usually happens is that: A nostalgic driven but inexperienced user downloads WinUAE and can't make it work somehow. Then he/she asks in forums or websites and get the answer from mostly also inexperienced users with the hint "You should buy AF forever, it has everything you need". And that's the whole story. Works for nearly 20 years as it seems.

WHDLoad, on the other side, is worth every penny. It brought a lot of people back to the Amiga (just like WinUAE). A very useful piece of software, written by Wepl and supported (for free! in there spare time) from a lot of nice WHDLoad patch coder.

I don't hate the company, or a man who i don't know. There is probably not a single person worldwide that i hate. But i can't stand this commercial emulator package bullshit. Toni can't even bundle WinUAE with the proper kickstarts after all these years and that's ridiculous.

My suggestion for Cloanto: Get all licences and copyrights and setup a crowdfunding, with a reasonable sum of all your costs and Amiga work done up to date, and make this stuff public domain. Probably just a pipe dream. But everything else is just another travesty in the sad and embarrising Amiga history.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 14 March 2019 at 01:43.
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Old 14 March 2019, 00:56   #73
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I feel neutral to slightly negative towards Cloanto. So I voted dislike 5 times and like 4 times, though this may not be precise enough. I would say closer to 15 dislikes and 13 likes and about 11 neutrals might be correct.
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Old 14 March 2019, 11:30   #74
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Originally Posted by Dunny View Post
This is just so wrong. Emulators reproduce the hardware but any software you run on it requires a purchased license to use it if it has not been made freely available by the people that own that software.

Emulators are not created for the purposes of running "old software for free".
Not sure I agree. I mean theoretically, you're correct. But I don't believe for one second that the author of, say a SNES emulator, expects people to use legally obtained ROM images with it. It's written for one purpose only. To play pirated roms.
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Old 14 March 2019, 12:21   #75
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Originally Posted by OlafSch View Post
Olaf and Thomas did it because they had sources already ready and wanted to make them available. That is gone now, next update would certainly need payment (if at all)
Errr... No, I don't think so. We are working on the next update (I mean, beyond 3.1.4.1), and there is no change in conditions. All provided that there will be still a window of opportunity to publish it, given all the legal mess.

Concerning the question posted: I don't quite get it. It's just too polarizing, so I don't vote. AmigaForever is a product I personally do not need (as I have already the kickstart, and its sources...), but that does not mean that I dislike it - what for? It certainly has found its market, and it good to have such a product for those that do not have the hardware. I have actually two versions of AmigaForever on DVD, sponsored by Cloanto - I'm neither against Cloanto. I'm just against all the legal nonsense that blocks development for a couple of peanuts.
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Old 14 March 2019, 12:23   #76
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Originally Posted by malko View Post
So now you know that 30 EAB users are on the dark side of the force AND you, with your "like" vote, you are on the light side...

More seriously, I am assuming that a lot of people have voted based on their experience with Cloanto's product or Cloanto's attitude over the years or Cloanto's business model or etc. .

But at the end, it's not because they do not share your opinion that they are wrong. They only have a different experience/opinion than yours.


WinUAE / FS-UAE are easy enough to be handled by "beginners". Saying that AmigaForever IS mainly for "beginners" is a nonsense.
AF is only another choice that may suits some people needs.
No I do not say that my view is universal but I say people thinking 80% of amiga users are against Cloanto because of the few here pressing dislike live in their own bubble and think it is the whole world
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Old 14 March 2019, 12:26   #77
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Errr... No, I don't think so. We are working on the next update (I mean, beyond 3.1.4.1), and there is no change in conditions. All provided that there will be still a window of opportunity to publish it, given all the legal mess.

Concerning the question posted: I don't quite get it. It's just too polarizing, so I don't vote. AmigaForever is a product I personally do not need (as I have already the kickstart, and its sources...), but that does not mean that I dislike it - what for? It certainly has found its market, and it good to have such a product for those that do not have the hardware. I have actually two versions of AmigaForever on DVD, sponsored by Cloanto - I'm neither against Cloanto. I'm just against all the legal nonsense that blocks development for a couple of peanuts.
Ok you are really generous... the amiga community can be happy to have someone like you and Olaf (even though Hyperion unfortunately benefits from it right now)
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Old 14 March 2019, 12:31   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
I have paid for Amiga Forever and WHDLoad because I think the Amiga is worth money - or it's worthless. If you want to pay $0, I'm not on your side.

But I don't know how to vote until I know whether you get the files and ROM images unencrypted and unsandboxed. (I've been told 3.1.4 Kick/WB comes unencrypted?)

It's just a practical thing. Those who care enough to swap out the Kickstart and OS at all should be able to pay a modest license, and then get their Amigas working.

Wounldn't just dumping them while in use give you unencrypted roms?
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Old 14 March 2019, 12:32   #79
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the amiga community can be happy to have someone like you and Olaf (even though Hyperion unfortunately benefits from it right now)


@ Thomas Richter

Could your work continue under the regime of Cloanto - or even under an Open Source initiative lead by the new owner?
Or is your work now legally bound to Hyperion exclusively?
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Old 14 March 2019, 12:50   #80
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Originally Posted by Thomas Richter View Post
I'm just against all the legal nonsense that blocks development for a couple of peanuts.
That's it!
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