Got problems with new A1200 Purchase.

trydowave · 01 August 2013, 18:32

Hi. Just got a spanking brand new mint A1200 with 4gb cf HDD, standard 2mb ram and KS 3.0. It uses a program at the beginning called tinyloader.

Problems are as follows:

1: I cant boot any of my A500 floppies either from start or from workbench. From start it loads tinyloader like the floppies don't exist and from workbench it says DF0 :????
Tried to format within workbench on the A1200 but I get an error message saying "not a valid dos disk"? I use both PC and original amiga floppies. All work in both my A500s
2:WHDload is slower at loading than using floppies and there's lots of black flashing? I think this is memory related but its annoying none the less and a little disappointing. I thought the thing would fly along.
3: To do with the above point. Can anyone suggest an accelerator? Will 128mb be preferable? The guy who sold it to me said be careful because theres some incompatibility with certain motherboards and that a company, such as amigakit, will have to tweak it before the accelerator is installed? is this true?

More questions on the way I promise

Thanks in advance
Tony

s2325 · 01 August 2013, 18:43

Try to press and hold both mouse buttons before booting.

Phantom · 01 August 2013, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by trydowave

Hi. Just got a spanking brand new mint A1200 with 4gb cf HDD, standard 2mb ram and KS 3.0. It uses a program at the beginning called tinyloader.

Problems are as follows:

1: I cant boot any of my A500 floppies either from start or from workbench. From start it loads tinyloader like the floppies don't exist and from workbench it says DF0 :????

Remove that Tinysh1ttyloader.

Quote:

Tried to format within workbench on the A1200 but I get an error message saying "not a valid dos disk"? I use both PC and original amiga floppies. All work in both my A500s

Are you sure that the A1200's disk drive is working flawlessly?

Quote:

3: To do with the above point. Can anyone suggest an accelerator? Will 128mb be preferable? The guy who sold it to me said be careful because theres some incompatibility with certain motherboards and that a company, such as amigakit, will have to tweak it before the accelerator is installed? is this true?

I recommend to find a second-hand Blizzard MKIV 030/50MHz with at least 32MB Fast RAM, and you will be a king of WhdLoading. If you want new accelerator your only option is to buy an ACA one for your A1200.

trydowave · 01 August 2013, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by s2325

Try to press and hold both mouse buttons before booting.

Tried this and it brought up the option to boot from whatever drive. I choose DF0 and the same thing happened. Nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Remove that Tinysh1ttyloader.

Whats bad about it?

Are you sure that the A1200's disk drive is working flawlessly?

The guy insists that it is and even claims to have installed Workbench and other programs to the A1200 before selling it to me. But, its the internet, you never know. Plus it could of got damaged in transit or I might be doing something wrong.

I recommend to find a second-hand Blizzard MKIV 030/50MHz with at least 32MB Fast RAM, and you will be a king of WhdLoading. If you want new accelerator your only option is to buy an ACA one for your A1200.

The Amiga kit seems to be cheaper and faster as well as new. Does the Blizzard offer something the ACA one doesn't?

Cheers
Tony

Update: I've just connected 3 external floppy drives too the A1200 and disks can now be accessed from workbench. Will try booting a game using that boot manager at start up now. Does this mean the A1200 drive is dead? I'm starting to think so myself!! Damn it!

Update: Just booted the game "No Second Prize" from DF1 and it booted. Didn't get to the game but it did recognise it!

Phantom · 01 August 2013, 19:46

Blizzard offers durability, compatibility and at the end it's a Phase5 product, you will not need anything else do you?

ACAs are new and very good accelerators, but again I still have my Blizzard MKIV since 1995.

kipper2k · 01 August 2013, 19:52

Do you have an Escom A1200, if so you will have to do the floppy drive mod to get it to read Amiga disks properly

fitzsteve · 01 August 2013, 19:53

Not sure what the issue is with your Floppy Drive although I know the newer Amiga Technologies A1200's had a modified PC drive and didn't work with many old A500 Games.

As for WHDLoad, it's a horrible experience with 2mb, get yourself at least a 4mb Ram board, better 8mb or an Accelerator as suggested.

There are other boards out here too, your choice isn't just limited to a Blizzard or an ACA card.

You are right in saying that if you buy an ACA card you might need to have timing fixes done, you shouldn't have any trouble with a Blizzard but of course it's not a brand new card with 2 years warranty.

trydowave · 01 August 2013, 19:54

Not really bothered about the authenticity of the product. I am about its durability and compatibility. IS the ACA as compatible? I imagine its more durable since its a brand new product. Its got more ram too.

fitzsteve · 01 August 2013, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by trydowave

Not really bothered about the authenticity of the product. I am about its durability and compatibility. IS the ACA as compatible? I imagine its more durable since its a brand new product. Its got more ram too.

I have two ACA's here, the 1220/16 (which I have had upgraded to 27mhz) It makes a nice difference over the stock card! And I have the 1232/33 both of them work flawlessly in my A1200's and I don't have any issues with the WHDLoad Games that I have tried.

I also play with some basic Emulators on my Amiga too, you can see my ACA1232 at work in this Video:

[ Show youtube player ]

One thing to note is my Motherboard's have been refurbished with new Capacitors and I use a converted ATX PSU.

trydowave · 01 August 2013, 20:01

It has this logo on it:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Amiga-Logo.svg
with A1200 after it. The box is Brand new, god knows what the inside is like though. I was told that it had be recapped.
heres what I brought:
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php...890#post490890
From the images I cant tell if its an Escom? Its definitely not an original A1200. Kinda looks like the stick was made after and stuck on.

fitzsteve · 01 August 2013, 20:34

The case and keyboard are new stock from the Amiga Technologies era, they used old Commodore parts anyway just re-badged.

As it's been re-cased there's no way to know for sure if the Amiga it's self was original sold by Commodore or AT but re-capped is excellent news because they can leak and cause all sorts of nasty issues.

trydowave · 01 August 2013, 20:40

Since it has 3.0 roms I think it might be an older board. Do you have any further advice regarding te floppy drive?

Cheers

trydowave · 03 August 2013, 11:56

TomCrazy · 04 August 2013, 05:22

@trydowave
Ok, here is my conclusion after watching the pictures:

The case for that A1200 is an Escom case (or so it seems), but the motherboard is not very likely to come from Escom since it's a revision 1A board. I have not actually thought about it before, but I would expect Escom motherboards to be rev 1D.4 or something like that.

However, it looks like your floppy disk drive is an Escom drive. That is probably why you're getting trouble with your setup; You have mixed a Commodore motherboard with an Escom floppy drive without any modification to either of them.
You should get rid of that PC drive and get a true Shugart drive instead. Just make sure you get an internal drive that physically fits an A1200.

Quote:

I still cant understand why one of my externals refused to work? I either got DF0:???? or DF0:NDOS...

If my conclusion from your photos are correct, then it's not that strange that you can't get an external drive to work while the internal PC drive is connected. To explain this, I would have to go into some technical details which would be too extensive to go through in this post.
What you could try doing is to disconnect the internal drive and see if you can then get your external drives to work again. If they do work again, then it's obvious that your internal drive is an Escom/PC floppy drive.

But in order to be sure about all of this, you will have to take a look at the bottom side of the motherboard and see if you have a jumper wire sitting at the internal floppy connector. If you do have a jumper wire there, then most probably it's an Escom board. But I would be very surprised if it was, since your board is of rev 1A.

You can also check for a jumper wire on the floppy disk drive. Escom/PC floppy disk drives sometimes have a jumper wire on the interface connector between pin 34 and pin 2, but they don't necessarily have to have this jumper wire. But you can at least be sure it's an Escom drive if your drive has this jumper wire at the interface connector.

I will probably be able to tell you more about your setup if you take some photos from the bottom side of your motherboard and from your suspected Escom drive as well.

Magno Boots · 04 August 2013, 07:05

WHDLoad problems aside..

Have you tried a degrader (relokick) whilst trying to load your A500 games?

The 1200 won't run most 500 floppies out of the box

Lord Aga · 04 August 2013, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by trydowave

the floppy has some paper on it? should i remove this and send another photo?

That paper should be Amigakit's user manual (or smtn) for the floppy drive

Probably there for insulation. Don't know how much it does really. It is probably best to take it off.
But if that drive matches that paper, then it is an Amigakit's drive for A600/A1200, and those work without any problems/mods (I have one in my A600). Just plug and play.

GadgetUK · 04 August 2013, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by trydowave

2:WHDload is slower at loading than using floppies and there's lots of black flashing? I think this is memory related but its annoying none the less and a little disappointing. I thought the thing would fly along.
3: To do with the above point. Can anyone suggest an accelerator? Will 128mb be preferable? The guy who sold it to me said be careful because theres some incompatibility with certain motherboards and that a company, such as amigakit, will have to tweak it before the accelerator is installed? is this true?

WHDload is pretty useless with stock 2Mb, get an ACA1220 or better:-
The lowest model with 128Mb 16 /18Mhz was fine for me, and can be easily overlocked to something like 28Mhz with a switch (warranty asside).

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/...oducts_id=1100

The black flashing is due to it attempting to cache with too little RAM, as soon as you get 8Mb most games run properly but still a few won't work even with 8Mb. With 128Mb you will have more memory than you will ever likely need lol.

You can experience problems with some of these accelerators and 'timing differences' on your Amiga. I was lucky - just plugged it in and it works without issue, mines Rev 1.4D or something, but not all the same revision work without the required 'timing fixes'. I guess you just have to give it a try and see what happens, if you get problems you will need the timing fixes applying. I think AmigaKit offer this as a service.

Regards your floppy drive problems, sounds like it could be the drive that's dodgy - you should at very least be able to format a blank floppy. I would start by cleaning the heads with a cotton bud and some isoprop alchohol. If it's not the drive you could be looking at a faulty CIA. EDIT: Seen the mobo pics now, it looks reasonably clean, although some caps look a little strangely aligned. EDIT2: I've just read TomCrazys post above, he makes some good points, it does sound probable that you have a Commodore mobo with an Escom drive, which requires a small mod or two in order to work.

The large blue 470uF capacitor near vid and power section sure is a very strange angle - actually lying on its side.

trydowave · 05 August 2013, 14:36

FOL · 05 August 2013, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by trydowave

That certainly isn't an Escom board and that certainly isn't one of our drives.
Even with an Escom board and drive, you should be able to put in a floppy and it boots from it. If not, then that drive is either faulty / not modded properly or the Mobo has a CIA fault maybe.

Who ever sold it to you, obviously didn't test it properly.
You will find its a mint case with refurbed motherboard in it.

Might sound silly, but do you get constant drive light on, maybe the floppy cable is in the wrong what round, as thats not a standard Commodore or Escom drive.
Also, does it make any noises when you turn it on or insert a disk?

Going by the pictures, you will need the ACA Timing fixes for the ACA card to work properly.
Your board is also missing the clock port header.

kipper2k · 05 August 2013, 16:05

yup,

I agree with Fol, as far as i can see, only 2 options, the floppy is bad (seems to have been de labelled for whatever reason) or one of the CIA chips are faulty. but i would get hold of a tested floppy drive first.

Have to ask same question, are you putting the 34 pin cable in the right way? Drive should click every couple of seconds if it is correct

01 August 2013, 18:32	#1
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Got problems with new A1200 Purchase. Hi. Just got a spanking brand new mint A1200 with 4gb cf HDD, standard 2mb ram and KS 3.0. It uses a program at the beginning called tinyloader. Problems are as follows: 1: I cant boot any of my A500 floppies either from start or from workbench. From start it loads tinyloader like the floppies don't exist and from workbench it says DF0 :???? Tried to format within workbench on the A1200 but I get an error message saying "not a valid dos disk"? I use both PC and original amiga floppies. All work in both my A500s 2:WHDload is slower at loading than using floppies and there's lots of black flashing? I think this is memory related but its annoying none the less and a little disappointing. I thought the thing would fly along. 3: To do with the above point. Can anyone suggest an accelerator? Will 128mb be preferable? The guy who sold it to me said be careful because theres some incompatibility with certain motherboards and that a company, such as amigakit, will have to tweak it before the accelerator is installed? is this true? More questions on the way I promise Thanks in advance Tony Last edited by trydowave; 01 August 2013 at 18:43.

01 August 2013, 20:40	#12
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Since it has 3.0 roms I think it might be an older board. Do you have any further advice regarding te floppy drive? Cheers Last edited by trydowave; 01 August 2013 at 21:15.

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01 August 2013, 18:43	#2
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	Try to press and hold both mouse buttons before booting.

01 August 2013, 19:46	#5
Phantom Adventurer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Colossal Cave, Valaii Posts: 364	Blizzard offers durability, compatibility and at the end it's a Phase5 product, you will not need anything else do you? ACAs are new and very good accelerators, but again I still have my Blizzard MKIV since 1995.

01 August 2013, 19:52	#6
kipper2k Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Thunder Bay, Canada Posts: 4,323	Do you have an Escom A1200, if so you will have to do the floppy drive mod to get it to read Amiga disks properly

01 August 2013, 19:53	#7
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,683	Not sure what the issue is with your Floppy Drive although I know the newer Amiga Technologies A1200's had a modified PC drive and didn't work with many old A500 Games. As for WHDLoad, it's a horrible experience with 2mb, get yourself at least a 4mb Ram board, better 8mb or an Accelerator as suggested. There are other boards out here too, your choice isn't just limited to a Blizzard or an ACA card. You are right in saying that if you buy an ACA card you might need to have timing fixes done, you shouldn't have any trouble with a Blizzard but of course it's not a brand new card with 2 years warranty.

01 August 2013, 19:54	#8
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Not really bothered about the authenticity of the product. I am about its durability and compatibility. IS the ACA as compatible? I imagine its more durable since its a brand new product. Its got more ram too.

01 August 2013, 20:01	#10
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	It has this logo on it: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Amiga-Logo.svg with A1200 after it. The box is Brand new, god knows what the inside is like though. I was told that it had be recapped. heres what I brought: http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php...890#post490890 From the images I cant tell if its an Escom? Its definitely not an original A1200. Kinda looks like the stick was made after and stuck on.

01 August 2013, 20:34	#11
fitzsteve Professional slacker! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kent, UK Age: 44 Posts: 6,683	The case and keyboard are new stock from the Amiga Technologies era, they used old Commodore parts anyway just re-badged. As it's been re-cased there's no way to know for sure if the Amiga it's self was original sold by Commodore or AT but re-capped is excellent news because they can leak and cause all sorts of nasty issues.

03 August 2013, 11:56	#13
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	I left this until I had some photos to post. Can anyone out their tell me if this A1200 model is the one with the usless PC floppy drive? Or if its an older model. I will then know what to do. Either send the mb in for modification or to get a new floppy drive. I still cant understand why one of my externals refused to work? I either got DF0:???? or DF0:NDOS... anyways heres some pics... http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/67883777@N02/9425795099/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ the floppy has some paper on it? should i remove this and send another photo? Also do i need to take pics of the underside of the motherboard? Thanks Tony

04 August 2013, 07:05	#15
Magno Boots Zone Friend Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 688	WHDLoad problems aside.. Have you tried a degrader (relokick) whilst trying to load your A500 games? The 1200 won't run most 500 floppies out of the box

05 August 2013, 14:36	#18
trydowave Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: N/A Posts: 873	Hi all. After a lengthy process I managed to get the motherboard out (hard to do when you don't have the right tools) and I've taken some snap shots of the underside of the Motherboard aswell as more shots of the Floppy drive. Here they are: http://www.flickr.com/photos/67883777@N02/9441444485/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/6788377...n/photostream/ I took the paper off the floppy drive and it didn't reveal any model or part numbers. Hope the motherboard pics give some idea about why my floppy drive isn't working. I don't see evidence of the wire mod used in the Escom models. Thanks Tony

05 August 2013, 16:05	#20
kipper2k Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Thunder Bay, Canada Posts: 4,323	yup, I agree with Fol, as far as i can see, only 2 options, the floppy is bad (seems to have been de labelled for whatever reason) or one of the CIA chips are faulty. but i would get hold of a tested floppy drive first. Have to ask same question, are you putting the 34 pin cable in the right way? Drive should click every couple of seconds if it is correct

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