Piracy - did you ever get caught?

[CritAnime]

So out of curiosity which of these would the whole EA charging again for 2nd hand games fall under?

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by CritAnime

So out of curiosity which of these would the whole EA charging again for 2nd hand games fall under?

It would fall under greed. No more, no less.
B!

[Linebacker!]

Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT

I didn't get caught, but stopped using calling cards after a few influential mates were tracked down using them.

Yes the good ole days, Nothing better than ringing the pizza shop down the road via Singapore (blueboxing) with the 3-5 sec delay , and trying to make sense of an order with the confused shop assistant

[laffer]

I was never caught and I also don't know anyone - either in real life or online - that have been caught.

I stole a couple of boxed Amiga games as well - but keep in mind I was about 8 years old and this friend I had back then urged me to do it.
Luckily I got away with all of that as well... not that the consequences of getting caught at such a young age would matter much but it would still have been highly unpleasant

Luckily my stupidity didn't last for more than half a year or so and then I never stole again after.

By the way - it's funny how I feel a bit guilty still about having actually stolen boxed games from a store way back when I was only 8, while I don't have any feelings like that regarding things I've pirated much later in life - you keep hearing 'industry people' and ads saying that theft and piracy is the very same thing... so according to that logic, what I did was no worse than pirating any game.

I don't agree with that very simplistic logic they're using, a statement saying that theft and piracy are the very same things... seems dumb to me.

Why even bother calling piracy theft in the first place - isn't piracy already illegal and punishable? What's the point of adding theft as well.

[gilgamesh]

They want people to feel guilty for copying stuff, which after decades of brain washing still is not common sense.

The marketing people invented the term 'piracy' for copying digital media. (Wonder why, there are no parrots or wooden legs involved.) Then they felt that people didn't respond properly to this trick, and now try to persuade them that piracy is theft. Which it clearly isn't.

What your naughty eight year old self did was theft.

[laffer]

Yeah I fully agree.

[OverDose]

Yeah, if you take a boxed game, you are depriving them of the ability to sell that boxed game. But if you copy the game, they can still sell the original.
If there was some fantasy world where copying was not possible and you had to always buy a copy, I think maybe the home computer industry would be very different.
I know many people who bought this or that platform because they could copy lots of games for it.
IP law is a bit of a mess. The situation for copyright used to be that the author had copyright for long enough to support themselves (and maybe their dependents if they died early), a kind of time limited monopoly, to encourage creativity but recognise that these creations should belong to everyone, and without limits you start to stifle creativity. Why create anything new if you can keep making money off the old? Once authors started giving their copyrights to corporations, there has been increasing pressure to extend the copyright terms, scope and length.
The situation today has seen the length of copyrights extended dramatically (largely due to US corporations, particularly Disney's concern about Mickey Mouse), and thanks to international treaties, changes lengthening in one part of the world tend to affect all the other countries. And now, where copyright was a civil matter with enforcement needing to be done by the copyright holders, it is now increasingly a criminal matter.
What has happened in effect, is that corporations are using copyright as a defacto monopoly, which is being enforced by publicly subsidised government resources (police forces).
The music industry in particular is asking governments to subsidise a broken distribution method, rather than invest in delivering media in a commercially viable way.

I think we need to go back to a system that supports creators, and gives the copyrights back to the people after a reasonable time (25 years after death of creator seems more than fair).

[Hewitson]

Not to mention the fact that many people who pirated the game wouldn't have bought the original in the first place..

It can only be called theft (of profits) if you would have bought the original, but decided to get a copy instead.

[Zetr0]

Originally Posted by gilgamesh

They want people to feel guilty for copying stuff, which after decades of brain washing still is not common sense.

The marketing people invented the term 'piracy' for copying digital media. (Wonder why, there are no parrots or wooden legs involved.) Then they felt that people didn't respond properly to this trick, and now try to persuade them that piracy is theft. Which it clearly isn't.

What your naughty eight year old self did was theft.

on the contrary it is infringement not theft.

Theft implies stealing and this is a matter pursued in criminal court where as copyright infringementis pursued in civil court.

The term Piracy is coined by the industry to demonize sharing, real piracy would be to steal a truck luck of original disks and then sell them at the nearest port. Copying and selling however is copyright infringement, nothing more, nothing less - it is not theft and it is dealt only in civil court.

The only time that copying is dealt within criminal court is in the case of counterfeiting. Should one make a bunch of disks to deliberately look just like the original's and try to sell them off as originals then one could be prosecuted under criminal law of counterfeit. With each case of counterfeit that the defendant is found guilty upon they can receive up to 15 years imprisonment for each instance.

As a matter of fact in the United Kingdom, we are still afforded the right to back up the software that we own, (this right is no longer applicable to movies and music - surprisingly).

Now a very interesting point; Anything that infringes on your rights (i.e. lets say your right to backup your software) is against the law. This means that "copy protection" is in fact illegal as it is a detriment to your afforded legal right of backing up your software...

Strange how no companies have been brought to court because of their use of them.... so they infringe on your rights..... but cry foul when you infringe on theirs.... hmmmm

[humble worm]

dunno how about the rest of the continent but in Poland piracy (including copying or even just using copied program without authors permission) is also a transgression against criminal law (statute on copyright law from 1994) and it is within interest of the police and public prosecutor. It is treated exactly as theft by the law so no difference how one calls it.

[OverDose]

Article 61 of the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPs) requires that signatory countries establish criminal procedures and penalties in cases of "willful trademark counterfeiting or copyright piracy on a commercial scale".

Different countries have different laws. However, the US EU trade agreements cover issues of intellectual property, so that developments in US law have become part of EU law, and member states have been required to make laws governing these things.

In Australia, a little while ago a university student was criminally prosecuted for distributing a mashup he made of a track from his website. It was significant, because it was an individual being prosecuted where they weren't engaged in commercial exploitation of a copyright work (he wasn't selling copies), moreover since it was a mashup there is the issue of whether or not it was a new work or not.

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by OverDose

In Australia, a little while ago a university student was criminally prosecuted for distributing a mashup he made of a track from his website. It was significant, because it was an individual being prosecuted where they weren't engaged in commercial exploitation of a copyright work (he wasn't selling copies), moreover since it was a mashup there is the issue of whether or not it was a new work or not.

Doesn't surprise me considering this country also allowed extradition of a member of DoD (Drink Or Die) to the USA for prosecution.

I can't wait to get out of this country and escape our absolute joke of a government.

[OverDose]

I've dug around and this is the relevant piece of UK legislation: the Copyright, Design and Patents Act 1988 as amended.

Not sure what the case law is, but section 107 2A b seems fairly vague, on reading it seems that a person running a private website offering copyright works for download could be in trouble. Maybe even peer to peer traffic could be encompassed in "communicating the work to the public", or not having a password on your WiFi and sharing an unsecured folder of mp3s (although that would be a stretch)...

Originally Posted by Hewitson

Doesn't surprise me considering this country also allowed extradition of a member of DoD (Drink Or Die) to the USA for prosecution.

I can't wait to get out of this country and escape our absolute joke of a government.

I remember this case. Since he had broken US law, and Australia had introduced some new legislation as part of the US Free Trade agreement, they had to extradite him. Even though he was in Australia when the crime was committed, and it wasn't criminal under Australian law at the time.

Or all those 'hackers' who had their computers taken away by the police, who had them for months and years while investigating their case. A very big deal in the 80s and 90s where most people still only had 1 computer and equipment cost 1000s, depreciating while you waited even though you hadn't been convicted.

You can't escape it, though. It's gone global. Unless you fancy going to Afghanistan or Ethiopia or somewhere nice like that.

[vidarh]

I was never very active. Closest I got to dealing with anyone well connected was when I got hold of Strider/FLT's phone number somehow and disturbed him during dinner to try to convince him to swap. I don't think he was very pleased, even more so because all the stuff I had was "old".

[Hewitson]

Originally Posted by vidarh

I was never very active. Closest I got to dealing with anyone well connected was when I got hold of Strider/FLT's phone number somehow and disturbed him during dinner to try to convince him to swap. I don't think he was very pleased, even more so because all the stuff I had was "old".

I came across a funny comment about him in Classic's trainer for Time Soldiers the other day..

Originally Posted by Classic

Watch out for the following lamers on your boards!!!! Strider/Faglight and the rest of the lamers in Faglight! Just simply delete them before they spread their lameness all over the place... Special message to -Striddler- Your asslicking changes but your lameness stays!!

Have you read this amusing article about him?

http://www.thephora.net/forum/archiv...p/t-37801.html

[mrbob2]

Originally Posted by Zetr0

on the contrary it is infringement not theft.

Theft implies stealing and this is a matter pursued in criminal court where as copyright infringementis pursued in civil court.

The term Piracy is coined by the industry to demonize sharing, real piracy would be to steal a truck luck of original disks and then sell them at the nearest port. Copying and selling however is copyright infringement, nothing more, nothing less - it is not theft and it is dealt only in civil court.

The only time that copying is dealt within criminal court is in the case of counterfeiting. Should one make a bunch of disks to deliberately look just like the original's and try to sell them off as originals then one could be prosecuted under criminal law of counterfeit. With each case of counterfeit that the defendant is found guilty upon they can receive up to 15 years imprisonment for each instance.

As a matter of fact in the United Kingdom, we are still afforded the right to back up the software that we own, (this right is no longer applicable to movies and music - surprisingly).

Now a very interesting point; Anything that infringes on your rights (i.e. lets say your right to backup your software) is against the law. This means that "copy protection" is in fact illegal as it is a detriment to your afforded legal right of backing up your software...

Strange how no companies have been brought to court because of their use of them.... so they infringe on your rights..... but cry foul when you infringe on theirs.... hmmmm

Your a clever guy! Soooo then

if music copying etc is not allowed, then surely we shouldnt be allowed to copy our cd`s to itunes and copy them to our ipod? Im pretty sure its illegal to tape a song of the radio and what about taping a film to dvd?
of course no one is every going to get into trouble but i think its funny how these silly laws exist

[gilgamesh]

Originally Posted by mrbob2

Your a clever guy! Soooo then

if music copying etc is not allowed, then surely we shouldnt be allowed to copy our cd`s to itunes and copy them to our ipod? Im pretty sure its illegal to tape a song of the radio and what about taping a film to dvd?
of course no one is every going to get into trouble but i think its funny how these silly laws exist

Well, German law allows you to make copies for personal use (unless you have to break copy protection) and unlimited recording of radio streams. British laws can't be that different, can they? It's both EU after all.

[Zetr0]

Originally Posted by mrbob2

Your a clever guy! Soooo then

if music copying etc is not allowed, then surely we shouldnt be allowed to copy our cd`s to itunes and copy them to our ipod? Im pretty sure its illegal to tape a song of the radio and what about taping a film to dvd?
of course no one is every going to get into trouble but i think its funny how these silly laws exist

No, I am not that clever.... I just read a lot... have a lot of insomnia to get through

Tonight's light reading are pages 186 - 244: Machine Code for the Z80

.... hey it could be worse.... it could be woman's world or something lame like that....


Simply put, in terms of music & movie media in the united kingdom: Unless you are given an express license by the licensor to duplicate "the work" you are not afforded the legal right to copy (back up) your music/movie. by doing so you infringe on their copyright.

in the case of taping radio or TV, I believe that you are afforded a 40 day grace period to watch and or listen to what you have recorded, after said time you are legally obligated to delete the copy.

However policing this is practically impossible; Remember it is the copyright holders responsibility to police their copyright, not the police.

As a matter of proceeding should you be brought to court, the plaintiff (copyright holder) would have to provide proof of loss or possible losses of earnings and or penalties sustained by your breach of their copyright. Please note that Civil court is not like Criminal court... the criminal court system requires you to be VERY guilty (90%+), where as civil court only needs to prove 51% guilty.

The lobbyists for the Music Industry for the UK is BPI and have been lobbying to restrict people rights to media consumption for a very long time, however this moves into the realms of politics and its not right - nor allowed - to bring that steaming pile of crap to a decent forum such as EAB.

I only wish more people would take the opportunity to read the law as it come to copyright, there are a lot of urban myths and half truth floated about as gospel.

The shocking truth comes when you realize that supposed inalienable rights that are afforded a citizen (even in the UK) can also be taken away upon the whim of another faceless entity...without any due process or jurisprudence...

That really bites....

[Vairn]

It used to be illegal in australia to copy music from CD or tape onto your Music player, but that got changed. I can't remember if anyone got in trouble for it, but it was what the word of the law said. hehe

[Skope]

Software "piracy" always did benefit the hardware market it seems. I never knew anyone who sold cracked stuff (which is the real piracy imo) but I know atleast one board that got busted back in the 90's. A childhood friend of mine also went to jail for a period of time due to carding and computer and telecommunications fraud. But never anyone for regular trading. Seems it was always the trickery on the side that got people under lock and key.