Which Amiga dungeon crawler RPG should I play ?

[Overdoc]

Hi guys,

I have been thinking about playing a classic dungeon crawler RPG together with a friend, like I did back in the nineties. (one played, one drew the maps)

Back then, I played these:

- Abandoned Places (finished)
- Eye of the Beholder I & II (both finished)
- Dungeon Master (gave up at some point)
- Black Crypt (gave up at some point)

Now, which dungeon crawler RPG would you suggest ?
It is important that it should be similar to the above, and it must be completable!

I have been thinking about these, but none of them seems to be a good option:

- Dungeons of Avalon ? (I read that end of game boss is impossible to kill)
- Dungeons of Avalon II (perhaps the same problem like in the first one ?)
- Crystal Dragon (I heard it is extremely difficult ?)
- Knightmare (everyone writes he never finished it)
- Abandones Places II (I also heard it is very hard ? Is this true ?! Anyone finished it ?)
- Chaos Strikes Back (even more difficult, I think...?)
- Dungeon Master II Legend of Skullkeep (hmm, anyone played it ? Possible to finish ?)
- Ishar (I heard it gets very hard near the end and saving costs gold...
- Ishar II and III (don't want to play them without having played I)
- Fate - Gates of Dawn (I know a guy who played it for years!!!, and still didn't finish it )
- Hired Guns (I don't like the screen split into 4 parts)
- Might and Magic III (maybe an option ? Have not played I & II, though)
- Realms of Arkania - Blades of Destiny (too complex)
- Spirit of Adventure (maybe an option ?)
- Wizardry - Bane of Cosmic Forge (haven't heard much about it. an option ?)
- Galdregons Domain, Bloodwych and Lords of Doom I would first like to play on C64, not on Amiga
- Amberstar and Ambermoon (these 2 I want to play later with a different friend)

Please correct me where I am wrong in my assumptions ?
Which one would you play ?
Or is there other ones I should try (Amiga only, and must be pseudo 3D dungeon crawler)

Thanks

[alexh]

Captive & Liberation

[desiv]

I see you don't have Elvira, Lure of the Temptress on your list..
Word is that it's pretty good as well, although I've only just loaded it..
I imagine there are some things in that game that will hold my interest.

Was going to start getting into those with Eye of the Beholder myself.

I tried Dungeon Master back in the day (and again recently) and for some reason, it hasn't held my interest..
Been doing better with Eye of the Beholder so far, but only just started that one..

desiv

[Cherno]

I have to vote for Hired Guns, of course. Play it late at night in a dark room and turn the speakers up. Also, since you want to play with a friend, it supports coop play Head over to the Hired Guns Operations Center for maps for all levels.

I recently played through Might & Magic III, and with a walkthrough for the tough parts, it was good fun (I really like the user interface).

Ambermoon is, apart from the short section in the Abandoned Mines,), a terrific experience, although not neccessarily a true classic dungeon crawler.

[TCD]

Dragonflight, Amberstar and Ambermoon. Lots of hours of playtime and really worthwhile.

[Overdoc]

Ok, thnaks so far.

But:

- isn't Captive incompletable ?
- and Captive II Liberation extremely hard, so it can also never be finished ?
- as for Hired Guns, maybe later, but now we would like to play 'together as one character, not as two in the same game)
- Dragonflight is a top view game, not a pseudo 3d dungeon crawler
- Amberstart & Ambermoon: I will surely play them one day, but now we think more about a 'real' dungeon crawler.
- Lure of the Temptress is no RPG, it is an adventure (which I like as well, but it is a different genre)

Ok, so far Might an Magic III might be worth to try ?

[Marcuz]

Perihelion. Combat is more similar to SSI Gold Box series, but it's the best dungeon adventure on Amiga I have played.

[desiv]

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Lure of the Temptress is no RPG, it is an adventure (which I like as well, but it is a different genre)

D'oh!!

I meant Elvira : Mistress of the Dark!!!

Not sure how I got Lure of the Temptress in there!!

Sorry!!!!

Even Elvira is a bit of an adventure, although it's not a pure adventure and it definitely has RPG elements to it.

I'd consider it a hybrid Adventure/RPG. The fighting is more adventure/action, but has RPG stat stuff.

Maybe a bit of a religious war there.. ;-)

desiv

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Dungeon Master (gave up at some point)

Why? Pick it back up because it's one of the best.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Chaos Strikes Back (even more difficult, I think...?)

Only difficult when you're a Dungeon Master n00b, so finish DM first.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Dungeon Master II Legend of Skullkeep (hmm, anyone played it ?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

Possible to finish ?

Absolutely. End boss is a big wimp. Rest of the game is far more challenging. Could be a little hard when you're a Dungeon Master beginner (and knowledge of mechanics make the end boss far too easy).

[ransom1122]

- Dungeon Master (gave up at some point) - Oh No WHY? DM Is the Grandfather of all RPG's This is a must to play

- Chaos Strikes Back (even more difficult, I think...?) - Can be tricky but worth playing if you have finished Dungeon Master. Don't forget the Oracle is your friend

- Dungeon Master II Legend of Skullkeep (hmm, anyone played it ? Possible to finish ?) - Very easy to finish. Didn't get stuck anywhere.

- Knightmare (everyone writes he never finished it) - Tricky game you might need Mr Google to finish this one. Very clever game

- Black Crypt (gave up at some point) - I replayed this with maps & walkthrough many many years after it was released and finished it. You may want to do the same. I thought even with the help of walkthrough and maps it was hard, and could only think there is no way to finish this game without help. Certain buttons do things on the other side of levels to which you have no idea about.

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by ransom1122

Don't forget the Oracle is your friend

Oracles are for wimps

[ransom1122]

Originally Posted by Thorham

Oracles are for wimps

For Noobs Just lending a hand

[matthey]

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Dungeon Master (gave up at some point)

The original Dungeon Master has the best puzzles and sound. It's really not that hard, especially with 2 heads. Try Meynaf's Dungeon Master as well as his new maps. The new map where you start out solo and rescue your girlfriend and dog is really fun. I would stay away from the nightmare level unless you are seriously hardcore.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Black Crypt (gave up at some point)

It's a good game that is more polished than Dungeon Master in some areas but a bit boring at some places as well. The puzzles aren't that difficult but it's easy to get lost and bored in the mazes. It's worth playing but maybe not worth going back to unless you really liked it.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Chaos Strikes Back (even more difficult, I think...?)

It's a totally different feel and the puzzles, level design and character building are poor. I didn't like it.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Dungeon Master II Legend of Skullkeep (hmm, anyone played it ? Possible to finish ?)

It doesn't feel like Dungeon Master at all but it has its own atmosphere. It's fun and not too hard. Definitely worth trying.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Hired Guns (I don't like the screen split into 4 parts)

I'm actually not the biggest fan of Hired Guns either (the balance and polish are just not there for long play) but the concept and atmosphere are excellent and it is much better with multiple players.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Wizardry - Bane of Cosmic Forge (haven't heard much about it. an option ?)

Fun and good story line at first. Character creation is interesting. Graphics, sound and GUI are poor. It gets very difficult and monotonous after awhile so don't plan on completing.

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Amberstar and Ambermoon (these 2 I want to play later with a different friend)

Great classic atmosphere and music. They are a bit cheesy but cute. Amberstar is difficult to start, monotonous in places and is not very well polished but is still playable and makes Ambermoon more interesting. Ambermoon is much more playable. The Amber style is much different than Dungeon Master, Black Crypt or EOB.

If you have AGA, then you might consider Evil's Doom. I haven't played it yet lacking a stable AGA machine but I have heard good things and I believe it would be in the same category.

http://hol.abime.net/3953

[Bugala]

Not as good as the rest, but i have been planning to revisit this one myself to finally complete it "Slaygon": http://hol.abime.net/1974

Main point is that it is small, to my understanding basically just one floor compared to other dungeon crawlers.

Hence this could go as a snack for you, being completeable in one session.

[Predseda]

try Crystals of Arborea from Silmarils. It is something like Ishar v0.5. Easy to play, easy to finish, short game. If you will like it, go for real Ishars then.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Overdoc

- Dragonflight is a top view game, not a pseudo 3d dungeon crawler

[ Show youtube player ]

[jbenam]

Well since this thread is here and most of you guys are Dungeon Crawler experts...

So, I've never played one when I was a kid (except Betrayal in Antara on PC when I was slightly older, which I still consider amazingly good for its time) and I'd like to play one on my Amiga as they fascinate me enormously, but I haven't got enough free time nowadays and I seriously either need one with simple enough dungeons that I don't have to draw a map to play it OR that it should come with an automap function of some sorts.

Is there something like that on the Miggy? Thanks for your help

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by jbenam

Is there something like that on the Miggy? Thanks for your help

Dungeon Master with original dungeons (Dungeon Master and Chaos Strikes Back), some custom dungeons and an automap: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...dungeon+master

[Overdoc]

@TCD:
Ok, thanks, looks good, but is battle also in 3D ? I thought battles are in some strange 2D view in this game ?
It does not have to be dungeon crawling only, and I even also like a surface world, even if it is in top view, but ithe game should not be mainly in top view. Let's say 70% of the playtime, including battles, should be in 3D view.
Would that be the case for Dragonflight ?

@Predseda:
Crystals of Arborea I actually finished But for some reason, the end of game fight never worked. I tried it 2 times (but from the same save-game), and there was no fight, instead I just wandered through him into the last tower....?!?

@Dungeon Master:
I can't remember why I gave up, I think it became somehow tedious because we had to go back to level 3 from level 7 or something ? Also, what we didn't like was those complicated runes to build a spell. That way we always had to prepare tons of things in advance before a fight.
But, I might try Dungeon Master II Legend of Skullkeep, if it does not need DM 1 to have finished before to understand the plot of the game or something ?
Do you think DM II is easier than DM I for someone who has not played any of them before ?

[Thorham]

Originally Posted by Overdoc

But, I might try Dungeon Master II Legend of Skullkeep

DM2 has the same rune based spell system as DM. If you don't like that, then don't play DM2 or Chaos Strikes Back. Also, if you don't like food and water (characters can die of starvation and dehydration), then don't play the DM series games.