What do people think about this as next Gen AMIGA?

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by Gunnar

I agree that a big company could make a big difference for the platform.
Commodore was good in producing their system for little money and selling them for an affortable price.

The A500 was good value for the money.
The A1200 also was good value for the money.

I miss this good value for the money.
Could a good value for the money be produced again?
What would it needed for this?

Both A500 and A1200 were good value because of the hardware (expecially the A500). The A1200 was at its time already too little too late. The A500 offered superior graphic and sound at its time and features like scrolling and bobs that were unique for that price. So Amiga NG should be great there too.

Originally Posted by Gunnar

Do you have any clue what a Minimig system really costs to produce in numbers?
If wanted you can produce a Minimig system for less than $20.

You certainly could but only if someone is investing millions for production and marketing. Do you have someone?

[Gunnar]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

You certainly could but only if someone is investing millions for production and marketing. Do you have someone?

No, sorry I have no one..

I just summarize our status.
All pieces to build new AMIGA are there.
FPGA are so low cost today that a good AMIGA system could be produced for a real affortable price if wanted.

* Several AGA chipsets are around
* we have 68K CPU which is really fast.
* And we have AROS as new free OS.

I think all the pieces are there.

I wonder what it would take to put them together.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Gunnar

If wanted you can produce a Minimig system for less than $20.

And yet they didn't. Do you have an answer for that?

Your polemic arguments don't really cut it, so I'd suggest you root for a different tactic for selling your product. Just food for thoughts you see.

[Gunnar]

Originally Posted by TCD

Any yet they didn't. Do you have an answer for that?

You know the answer yourself.
The AMIGA scene is a crazy niche market - where people are willing to pay insane prices.

In some way the people that paid crazy money for the X1000 are responsible for the situation themselves

The situation is simple:
In the AMIGA hardware market you have all small companies.
What is easier for small companies:
Sell a few hundred pieces of hardware each with a real good revenue?
Or sell a ten thousand of pieces of small revenue each?

Originally Posted by TCD

I'd suggest you root for a different tactic for selling your product.

Could it be that you did not understand what we talk about here?
Or are you just angry that I speak out the truth?

If I wanted to make money, then I would not post this.
I would just look around and see that Amiga people are used to pay X-hundred $$ for a similar product and I would ask for X hundred $$ for mine.
This would be the way to make easy money.


But lets today have the guts to speak the truth, OK?
Most AMIGA product could be produce for much less money
and most could be sold for 50% of their current price.

While I fully understand why the small companies do not do this - its clear the AMIGA will stay a total niche until someone breaks this wishes cycle.

[wawa]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

Toni Wilen has invested some work in the Roms recently, f.e. added PSF3 support and added Blitter support. Wawa has tested it recently and said it becomes usable even without RTG (he has 060 so he cannot say how it behave on 030.

just to put it straight, i have ran it on a4k with cs 060 and a1200 with an blizzard 040 and can run it down through 030 down to bare a1200 020 with some ram, only i did not. i have yet other things to do than test each and every cofig there is. i think i do otherwise my best, but then it takes its time, why else barely anyone is testing aros on real amiga. by the download numbers i am one guy and thats it.

now to gunnars idea, as far as im concerned count me in, but ill rather want it as an accel for my a4000 first and i wanna see amiga software running on it up front. so where is the workbench youtube running on phoenix core?

Originally Posted by Gunnar

Could it be that you did not understand what we talk about here?
Or are you just angry that I speak out the truth?

If I wanted to make money, then I would not post this.
I would just look around and see that Amiga people are used to pay X-hundred $$ for a similar product and I would ask for X hundred $$ for mine.
This would be the way to make easy money.


But lets today have the guts to speak the truth, OK?
Most AMIGA product could be produce for much less money
and most could be sold for 50% of their current price.

While I fully understand why the small companies do not do this - its clear the AMIGA will stay a total niche until someone breaks this wishes cycle.

okay be honest. im not some x1k fan, no matter it has a quote of the lyrics of b52s on the board or not. now your board will not challenge the x1k for the pure number crunching power, however outdated it be. your board will be all over much cheaper (i guess) and will address the existing 68k software base as a native solution since thats what is a common denominator in the amiga community. so just show off that above mentioned 68k code running on your core already, and i mean a regular code, not a forged demo.

[Gunnar]

Originally Posted by wawa

i mean a regular code, not a forged demo.

Forged demo?
There was no forget demo.

See this is exactly the attitude of this shitty commnunity.
The source for the demo is there and it was offered/available for download.
How many people wanted to source - ZERO, NONE, NO-ONE.
its really that people don't care about.
But people like to call it fake.

The same with NATAMI the NATAMI works and runs since many years.
But people still like to call it fake.

We talk here that AMIGA can have a better chance if producers would be halve greedy.
Why should they do this for this community?

[saimon69]

Originally Posted by Gunnar

You know the answer yourself.
The AMIGA scene is a crazy niche market - where people are willing to pay insane prices.

In some way the people that paid crazy money for the X1000 are responsible for the situation themselves

Well, i am NOT available to pay insane prices: the already high cost of hardware in the half nineties prevented me to buy a 4000/030, and prices did NOT fall after a while, so there was no way for me to buy a new Amiga machine or a better accelerator than my Viper EC030 even if i wanted.

That, and the mismanagement of Commodore and other brought me to support AROS since i believe in users handling their own system better than any company could be.

Amiga brought high tech powerful machine to the masses,and the os4 guys are trying to make it an expensive niche: i disagree with that and would love to endorse lower price hardware, possibly with AROS 68k well tweaked

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by Gunnar

Forged demo?
There was no forget demo.

See this is exactly the attitude of this shitty commnunity.
The source for the demo is there and it was offered/available for download.
How many people wanted to source - ZERO, NONE, NO-ONE.
The really people don't care about.
But people like to call if fake.

The same with NATAMI the NATAMI works and runs since many years.
But people still like to call it fake.

We talk here that AMIGA can have a better chance if producers would be halve greedy.
Why should they do this for this community?

We should calm a little. People were too often disappointed in the past so they do not believe anybody anymore. You should concentrate on the first piece (a accellerator with fast processor, more ram and RTG) for all models and if that is out all people with doubts like Wawa will become silent. Make a developer blog, show a video workbench booting and so on. If that phase is completed it is good time to make plans for next steps. As a example if we want developers return we need both future products and real buyable hardware. So step by step. Mike wrote on amiga.org that his core will be opensourced soon so perhaps something combining both (yours and his core) will become possible. Time will tell.

Regarding cheap hardware, normally you need big production runs for that and that means someone taking risks and prefinancing. At the moment I do not see anybody willing and able to do that. So best strategy is to have hardware out that is sold to the community and showable, develop a new standalone core with both AGA/SAGA/68k and so on on the FPGA and then show it to investors. At the moment we have not much to show (even after the accellerators are out). We are excited but potential investors will propably be as negative as TGE at first so you need something to persuade them. Even that 68k is more efficient than other processor is not interesting anyone outside the community.

@Wawa

Igor (creator of Vampire boards) also wrote that the demo was not tuned or similar for the core and the source is available. So if anyone has doubts he can check. People that not check should not make such comments without evidence.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Gunnar

See this is exactly the attitude of this shitty commnunity.

You might want to reconsider this line or take a week off. Your choice.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by TCD

You might want to reconsider this line or take a week off. Your choice.

It was propably using harsh words because of disappointment because most people are not doing anything and only bash the few that do. In case of wawa this is not true because he is f.e. testing aros 68k on real hardware and reporting back. But anyway I hope all people giving negative comments will excuse themselves when they see that they were wrong.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

It was propably using harsh words because of disappointment because most people are not doing anything and only bash the few that do. In case of wawa this is not true because he is f.e. testing aros 68k on real hardware and reporting back. But anyway I hope all people giving negative comments will excuse themselves when they see that they were wrong.

I got that Gunnar is a bit over excited, but that's no excuse for this kind of statement. If he doesn't excuse himself properly, he'll take a leave. This kind of behaviour will not be tolerated here.

[Gunnar]

Originally Posted by TCD

You might want to reconsider this line or take a week off. Your choice.

Listen my friend.
I've spend 5 years to develop a high performance 68K CPU.
This CPU is faster than a 100 Mhz 68060 and its very affortable for new projects. Building a new system with it cost of less than $10 of FPGA.
So this really does open new options for classic AMIGA systems.


We have all the pieces to build a new good classic AMIGA if we wanted,
* We have the OS
* We have the chipset
* We have the CPU

If we really - really - really wanted could build an AMIGA
with 200 MIPS, 128 MB fastmem and AGA++ chipset for 50 Euro.


Wheter is a great community or a shitty community does in my opinion show how the community acts here.
Is the community able to get this done?
Or can people only moan?
TCD what is your reaction: Do you moan or to you get it done?

[StingRay]

Originally Posted by Gunnar

If we really - really - really wanted could build an AMIGA
with 200 MIPS, 128 MB fastmem and AGA++ chipset for 50 Euro.

Do it. I will buy 3 of them!

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Gunnar

Wheter is a great community or a shitty community does in my opinion show how the community acts here.
Is the community able to get this done?
Or can people only moan?
TCD what is your reaction: Do you moan or to you get it done?

I'm not your friend and I clearly see that you didn't get the point. A week off it is then.

[Retrofan]

[Amiga1992]

And there it goes. Just as I said before.

[jbenam]

Is Gunnar the real saviour of the high-end community? Will he bring us awesome accelerated joy for peanuts?

Discover the truth (and other drama) on the next episode of "THE AMIGA ROLLERCOASTER". Talks, excitement, letdowns!

Don't miss it - Next week on EAB!

[tolkien]

But why are people so angry. I think all this is beautiful.

I think some people innovate, which is exciting to me. Other people bitch and gripe, and it's been very detrimental to the progress of our little hobby

If someone wants to redesign a floppy drive eject button replacement, I say "Bravo!"

Same if someone wants to build a new accelerator, build a brand new amiga, or make a computer case sticker. Thanks for the hard work on this, guys. Many of us appreciate and are excited about it, even if it's not something we plan to use.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by jbenam

Is Gunnar the real saviour of the high-end community? Will he bring us awesome accelerated joy for peanuts?

Discover the truth (and other drama) on the next episode of "THE AMIGA ROLLERCOASTER". Talks, excitement, letdowns!

Don't miss it - Next week on EAB!

Sorry to say that... What have you contributed in recent years to the platform?

I do not share his choice of words but I understand his feelings because I felt the same a couple of times in the past, even thought about dropping everything and leaving again. A lot of people are not contributing anything and just talking and (worse) frustrating the few who try to do anything. And if you say "I am not a programmer" there is a lot of to do and document and be it "only" testing. So what is your contribution?

Originally Posted by tolkien

But why are people so angry. I think all this is beautiful.

Because they feel good making superior comments because they know how the world goes round...