CD32 Swap method

Cobe · 16 February 2016, 12:03

This might sounds funny or like why would you do that but it just came to my mind as I got answer that Tanks Furry CD wont be cd32 bootable cause of trademarks although looking at game reqs it should work fine.
So I thought to myself what if CD would have s:startup-sequence but not embedded cd32.tm. I guess it is possible to use the same method that works with Sega Saturn. Simply put the disc with cd32.tm and while logo is spinning swap with one without it

Unfortunately my CD32 isn't working at the moment so I cant try it and before trying the one would have to fix some piece of plastic between reset sensors so you could open the try without reseting the console.

Or maybe someone could write a utility for booting cds without trademark...
Orr.. maybe even it can be done just simple as making RAD and putting simple startup sequence in rad execute cd0:s/startup-sequence... I forgot when you make RAD: and cd32 boots from it after reseting, its not checking any more if tm is on cd, right?

Now when I think again even CDs without startup-sequence could be booted, you can write it in rad whatever is needed to boot game and tweak it for cd32 but in this case it wouldn't be universal... but I could write Tanks Furry Bootcrack CD

s2325 · 16 February 2016, 13:19

I think you may kill CD drive after some time. Swap method was never good for hardware. But it is interesting idea.

Amigajay · 16 February 2016, 13:42

You could use a disc that doesn't reboot the system when you take a disc out i.e Network CD or Lock N Load CD, then just put the Tanks disc in and play that way.

Cobe · 16 February 2016, 14:01

@s2325 yeah eventually for sure. Although I used it for hundred time on my Saturn and it is still working like before I wouldn't suggested it, it is only the last option. But I would like to try it one day on cd32 just know does it work.

@Amigajay I'm aware of "noreset" used on those and similar cds and if I remember WB for cd32 uses it too which can probably also be used for running Tanks like some other game that you have on some backup cd if it doesn't acquire something more than like starting exe.

But I was thinking of some more dedicated solution which would be the quickest way to play it on cd32 from original cd.

earok · 17 February 2016, 02:17

I experimented a bit with KillCD0 on Aminet, I can't remember why but in principle I think what you want is do-able.

Would there be any other games that would benefit from this approach? (AmigaCD games that would be CD32 compatible IF they had the trademark file).

Alternatively we could release some sort of upgrade kit, eg you rip the game CD to an ISO, apply a TM patch, and then burn that patched ISO.

Cobe · 17 February 2016, 08:49

What could KillCD0 be usefull for? Gaining few kbs if someting is ran from ram?

Im not sure if there is some other game that could be run this way, there should be... or there will be...

I wasn't thinking of upgrading cd with .tm and burning it again and running it from it.
I was thinking of a way to run it from original cd.

If there is S-sequence on cd it could probably be done by swap but that violent method should be avoided.

Then I thought of creating some CD32 Utopia disc like the one on Dreamcast where you would boot that disc first and then insert some other disc that doesn't have .tm and boot it.

For sure it can be done in many ways but the question is is it worth it.

Predseda · 17 February 2016, 09:01

I think CD32 reboots when you open the lid, so how would you swap CDs while loading?

Cobe · 17 February 2016, 09:02

As Amigajay already mentioned there is "noreset" utility.

spudje · 17 February 2016, 09:02

I guess it would be easier to try to make a WHDLoad slave or something out of the game and have it run with CD32Load. Enough smart people on this board to make something like this happen.

Cobe · 17 February 2016, 09:06

Of course but the main reason I was thinking of something like this is because I don't wont to run it from anywhere else but from original cd. For instance what if game isn't released as free download.

Amigajay · 17 February 2016, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobe

Of course but the main reason I was thinking of something like this is because I don't wont to run it from anywhere else but from original cd. For instance what if game isn't released as free download.

Of course they can do that, but he wanted to be able to play the game on the original CD copy he bought.

Predseda · 17 February 2016, 09:16

Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not legally possible to create a bootable CD for CD32 because of some trademarks or copyrights??

Cobe · 17 February 2016, 09:20

Yup, Thanks Furry wont be cd32 bootable cause of legal issues.

Predseda · 17 February 2016, 09:37

I know, I have read that, but without closer explanation.

Amigajay · 17 February 2016, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Predseda

I know, I have read that, but without closer explanation.

They can't include the cdtv.tm/cd32.tm files needed to boot the game on a CD32 because they are owned just like a kickstart image.

Predseda · 17 February 2016, 10:49

OMG thats so stupid...

But thank you for your explanation.

Amiga1992 · 17 February 2016, 16:20

This licensing bullshit keeps going on.

earok · 17 February 2016, 20:03

I was having a think about this - as I understand it with the GameBoy every cartridge needs to have the Nintendo logo in at the start of the ROM. This was so that, if you made an unlicenced game, Nintendo could say that you were breaching their copyrights by pointing out you included their logo without their permission.

I had a look at the CD32 trademark file and there's this:

Code:

*************************************************
*                                               *
* Copyright © 1993 - Commodore Electronics Ltd. *
*              All rights reserved.             *
*                                               *
*       CCCC    TM                              *
*     CCCCCC                                    *
*   CCCCCCCC                                    *
*   CCCCCC  //////                              *
*  CCCCC    /////   The Commodore logo is a     *
*  CCCC     ////    registered trademark of     *
*  CCCC             Commodore Electronics Ltd.  *
*  CCCC             in the U.S. and many other  *
*  CCCC     \\\\    countries.                  *
*  CCCCC    \\\\\                               *
*   CCCCCC  \\\\\\                              *
*   CCCCCCCC                                    *
*     CCCCCC                                    *
*       CCCC                                    *
*                                               *
*                                               *
*************************************************

I guess Commodore tried pulling the same thing. Who actually owns the logo now, and would they be the only people able to contest a new commercial CD32 release?

Retro1234 · 17 February 2016, 20:05

thats just rubbish if anyone tries to make money from that there a rip off merchant and commodore never cared about licensing this and who says they cant? you dont need a license to install df0: do you.

Maybe some kind of Aros.tm is possible

Amigajay · 17 February 2016, 20:18

Well Piko Interactive are going to releasing 3 CD32 titles this year supposedly, maybe could ask them if they need a license and who from?

16 February 2016, 12:03	#1
Cobe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Belgrade / Serbia Age: 41 Posts: 999	CD32 Swap method This might sounds funny or like why would you do that but it just came to my mind as I got answer that Tanks Furry CD wont be cd32 bootable cause of trademarks although looking at game reqs it should work fine. So I thought to myself what if CD would have s:startup-sequence but not embedded cd32.tm. I guess it is possible to use the same method that works with Sega Saturn. Simply put the disc with cd32.tm and while logo is spinning swap with one without it Unfortunately my CD32 isn't working at the moment so I cant try it and before trying the one would have to fix some piece of plastic between reset sensors so you could open the try without reseting the console. Or maybe someone could write a utility for booting cds without trademark... Orr.. maybe even it can be done just simple as making RAD and putting simple startup sequence in rad execute cd0:s/startup-sequence... I forgot when you make RAD: and cd32 boots from it after reseting, its not checking any more if tm is on cd, right? Now when I think again even CDs without startup-sequence could be booted, you can write it in rad whatever is needed to boot game and tweak it for cd32 but in this case it wouldn't be universal... but I could write Tanks Furry Bootcrack CD Last edited by Cobe; 16 February 2016 at 12:27.

17 February 2016, 20:03	#18
earok Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Auckland Posts: 3,539	I was having a think about this - as I understand it with the GameBoy every cartridge needs to have the Nintendo logo in at the start of the ROM. This was so that, if you made an unlicenced game, Nintendo could say that you were breaching their copyrights by pointing out you included their logo without their permission. I had a look at the CD32 trademark file and there's this: Code: ************************************************* * * * Copyright © 1993 - Commodore Electronics Ltd. * * All rights reserved. * * * * CCCC TM * * CCCCCC * * CCCCCCCC * * CCCCCC ////// * * CCCCC ///// The Commodore logo is a * * CCCC //// registered trademark of * * CCCC Commodore Electronics Ltd. * * CCCC in the U.S. and many other * * CCCC \\\\ countries. * * CCCCC \\\\\ * * CCCCCC \\\\\\ * * CCCCCCCC * * CCCCCC * * CCCC * * * * * ************************************************* I guess Commodore tried pulling the same thing. Who actually owns the logo now, and would they be the only people able to contest a new commercial CD32 release?

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16 February 2016, 13:19	#2
s2325 Zone Friend Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Gargore Age: 43 Posts: 17,789	I think you may kill CD drive after some time. Swap method was never good for hardware. But it is interesting idea.

16 February 2016, 13:42	#3
Amigajay Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: > Posts: 2,881	You could use a disc that doesn't reboot the system when you take a disc out i.e Network CD or Lock N Load CD, then just put the Tanks disc in and play that way.

16 February 2016, 14:01	#4
Cobe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Belgrade / Serbia Age: 41 Posts: 999	@s2325 yeah eventually for sure. Although I used it for hundred time on my Saturn and it is still working like before I wouldn't suggested it, it is only the last option. But I would like to try it one day on cd32 just know does it work. @Amigajay I'm aware of "noreset" used on those and similar cds and if I remember WB for cd32 uses it too which can probably also be used for running Tanks like some other game that you have on some backup cd if it doesn't acquire something more than like starting exe. But I was thinking of some more dedicated solution which would be the quickest way to play it on cd32 from original cd.

17 February 2016, 02:17	#5
earok Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Auckland Posts: 3,539	I experimented a bit with KillCD0 on Aminet, I can't remember why but in principle I think what you want is do-able. Would there be any other games that would benefit from this approach? (AmigaCD games that would be CD32 compatible IF they had the trademark file). Alternatively we could release some sort of upgrade kit, eg you rip the game CD to an ISO, apply a TM patch, and then burn that patched ISO.

17 February 2016, 08:49	#6
Cobe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Belgrade / Serbia Age: 41 Posts: 999	What could KillCD0 be usefull for? Gaining few kbs if someting is ran from ram? Im not sure if there is some other game that could be run this way, there should be... or there will be... I wasn't thinking of upgrading cd with .tm and burning it again and running it from it. I was thinking of a way to run it from original cd. If there is S-sequence on cd it could probably be done by swap but that violent method should be avoided. Then I thought of creating some CD32 Utopia disc like the one on Dreamcast where you would boot that disc first and then insert some other disc that doesn't have .tm and boot it. For sure it can be done in many ways but the question is is it worth it.

17 February 2016, 09:01	#7
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,536	I think CD32 reboots when you open the lid, so how would you swap CDs while loading?

17 February 2016, 09:02	#8
Cobe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Belgrade / Serbia Age: 41 Posts: 999	As Amigajay already mentioned there is "noreset" utility.

17 February 2016, 09:02	#9
spudje Registered User Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,406	I guess it would be easier to try to make a WHDLoad slave or something out of the game and have it run with CD32Load. Enough smart people on this board to make something like this happen.

17 February 2016, 09:06	#10
Cobe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Belgrade / Serbia Age: 41 Posts: 999	Of course but the main reason I was thinking of something like this is because I don't wont to run it from anywhere else but from original cd. For instance what if game isn't released as free download.

17 February 2016, 09:16	#12
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,536	Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not legally possible to create a bootable CD for CD32 because of some trademarks or copyrights??

17 February 2016, 09:20	#13
Cobe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Belgrade / Serbia Age: 41 Posts: 999	Yup, Thanks Furry wont be cd32 bootable cause of legal issues.

17 February 2016, 09:37	#14
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,536	I know, I have read that, but without closer explanation.

17 February 2016, 10:49	#16
Predseda Puttymoon inhabitant Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tromaville Age: 46 Posts: 7,536	OMG thats so stupid... But thank you for your explanation.

17 February 2016, 16:20	#17
Amiga1992 Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ? Posts: 19,644	This licensing bullshit keeps going on.

17 February 2016, 20:05	#19
Retro1234 Phone Homer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: 5150 Posts: 5,773	thats just rubbish if anyone tries to make money from that there a rip off merchant and commodore never cared about licensing this and who says they cant? you dont need a license to install df0: do you. Maybe some kind of Aros.tm is possible

17 February 2016, 20:18	#20
Amigajay Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: > Posts: 2,881	Well Piko Interactive are going to releasing 3 CD32 titles this year supposedly, maybe could ask them if they need a license and who from?

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