Legality of CoffinOS and Vampire Team

[DamienD]

Someone just sent me two interesting PMs:

I went and d/l this CoffinOS to see what the fuss is about.

Just a snippet of info for you... the "CoffinOS" ROM file seems to have had a small makeover copyright wise.

It reads as follows... AMIGA ROM Operating System and Libraries Powered by 68080 AMMX Apollo Team Bringing 68k back! 3.10 ROM exec.library exec 45.23 (22.09.2016)

Naughty naughty Apollo Team!

That's taken from the 'kick.rom' file ... there's tons of stuff in the distro - whdload, mods, full versions of software.

They must be crazy over at Apollo Team if they think this is legal in any way shape or form!

[nikosidis]

I guess the company that is most interested in this is Hyperion. They are trying to sell AmigaOS classic.

This is risky from a hardware manufacturer.

Hyperion is a bunch of lawyers.

[nobody]

Who cares, should have been abandonware ages ago or distributed with pay what you want model.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by nobody

Who cares, should have been abandonware ages ago or distributed with pay what you want model.

Be that or not... it's not what we are discussing here...

It is what it is today; none of us can change that.

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by nobody

Who cares?

nobody

[DamienD]

...well you guys might not care.

But as mentioned; I'm sure Haage & Partners or Hyperion would, and be very interested in this discussion and what gets uncovered.

Not to mention other still active / commercial software devs when they find out that their work is being distributed for free in this CoffinOS distro...

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by nobody

Who cares, should have been abandonware ages ago or distributed with pay what you want model.

Regardless they are a hardware manufacturer, they shouldn't even be spreading any WHDLoad games, nevermind anything else.

[spudje]

Originally Posted by DamienD

You've now stated incorrectly that the "EAB File Server" also distributes illegal software...

So, again; show me exactly where there are Amiga OS files / Kickstart ROMs and commercial programs / games still for sale on the "EAB File Server" for download?

Just a random pick from the EAB FTP (see attachement), the Amigajay CD32 CDs contain kickstart ROMs, as many games are WHDLoad/CDLoad32 based... So things aren't as black and white as you hope them to be Damien.

I agree Coffin is a very dubious piece of software and that the Apollo team should distance more from it. The main dubious part is AOS 3.9. I think that most, if not all, other software on it can be found on the EAB server as well. Contemporary commercial software on the other hand is present in trial form, e.g. Roadshow.

However, they themselves do not ask money for this distribution. At A34, I was there and got a V4SA with Cloanto licensed kick rom and paid for the hardware, including a CF card. The dubious part is that it contained Coffin, but I didn't pay for Coffin and i own a legal copy of AOS3.9. There are others taking advantage of it and asking money for Coffin.

The Apollo team is actually very much advancing the AROS development.

It's that Amikit is taking quite some time with their Vampire version, because I am very happy to buy that and replace Coffin with Amikit.

[BippyM]

Again I will refer to my NVidia analogy.. Would NVidia or any other company share software that they do not own/are not licensed to spread? Even if it is considered as "Abandonware"?


For all we know Apollo has permission to spread this imagefile, personally I think it is a massive grey area, but all the same.. It does leave a sour taste

Originally Posted by spudje

Just to a random pick from the EAB FTP (see attachement), the Amigajay CD32 CDs contain kickstart ROMs, as many games are WHDLoad/CDLoad32 based... So things aren't as black and white as you hope them to be Damien.

I agree Coffin is a very dubious piece of software and that the Apollo team should distance more from it. The main dubious part is AOS 3.9. I think that most, if not all, other software on it can be found on the EAB server as well. E.g. contemporary commercial is present in trial form, e.g. Roadshow.

However, they themselves do not ask money for this distribution. At A34, I was there and got a V4SA with Cloanto licensed kick rom and paid for the hardware, including a CF card. The dubious part is that it contained Coffin, but I didn't pay for Coffin. There are others taking advantage of it and asking money for Coffin.

The Apollo team is actually very much advancing the AROS development.

[coldacid]

Given that H&P is enjoined from selling OS 3.5 and 3.9, and there remains all kinds of legal murkiness surrounding ownership and licensing of many parts of 3.9, it's fairly unlikely that the Amiga OS core of Coffin is in any way licensed for them to distribute.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by spudje

Just a random pick from the EAB FTP (see attachement), the Amigajay CD32 CDs contain kickstart ROMs, as many games are WHDLoad/CDLoad32 based... So things aren't as black and white as you hope them to be Damien.

That's news to me... please tell me exactly which ones and I'll delete immediately!!!

Edit: just saw your attachment... "Unreleased Game Collection CD32 v0.3.zip" has now deleted off the "EAB File Server".

Amigajay, please don't upload any CDs that KS ROMs.

[Retro1234]

Pointing out that it contains WHDload games and lots of software on the EAB server is hardly a good argument.

I'm sure some clever person could make a install script to make it a less grey area.

[spudje]

There are many, not just from Amigajay. Most of these compilation CDs that use WHDLoad/CDLoad32 contain kick ROMs. I wouldn't even be surprised TOSEC contains them.

[shuttlepilot]

Originally Posted by Retro1234

Pointing out that it contains WHDload games and lots of software on the EAB server is hardly a good argument.

I'm sure some clever person could make a install script to make it a less grey area.

Having illegal Kickstart ROM files on them though is a perfectly valid argument for removal.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by BippyM

For all we know Apollo has permission to spread this imagefile, personally I think it is a massive grey area, but all the same.. It does leave a sour taste

Doubt it... or to hack / modify ROMs and put their name all over it.

You can read in the amiga-new.de article that:

Mr. Haage did indeed state that he didn't know about the Vampire project and did not have any communication with the people behind it - according to him, nobody approached Haage & Partner to ask about OS 3.9.

[Retro1234]

Originally Posted by shuttlepilot

Having illegal Kickstart ROM files on them though is a perfectly valid argument for removal.

This thread is a about the legality yes but the last thread..... It of course valid Amiga topic as any, so you can't post links in it's current state but it's definitely Amiga.

Someone just create a legal install script put it on the file server, bish bash bosh move on.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by spudje

There are many, not just from Amigajay. Most of these compilation CDs that use WHDLoad/CDLoad32 contain kick ROMs.

Ok then; name them and they will be removed immediately!!! Promise

Originally Posted by spudje

I wouldn't even be surprised TOSEC contains them.

100% no... TOSEC are very careful what files they upload and strictly follow EAB rules: Workbench disks, Kickstart ROMs & software or music files still supported/for sale

[spudje]

So Damien, you want me to ask Amiga-news.de to also make an article about EAB FTP?

Just kidding. My point is, it's all more complicated, vague, etc. just to be pointing fingers IMO. I'm pretty sure, even without these kick ROMs, the "abandonware" on EAB FTP is still seen as valid copyrighted material by more than one lawyer/judge/IP expert/...

So to me it's a bit hypocritical to condemn the Apollo guys. Let's keep pointing them out and advise them to stop making Coffin, or distance from it, or discuss with the rights owners to make it as legal as possible. that's a much more constructive approach I would say.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by spudje

So Damien, you want me to ask Amiga-news.de to also make an article about EAB FTP?

Be my guest...

Originally Posted by spudje

Just kidding. My point is, it's all more complicated, vague, etc. just to be pointing fingers IMO. I'm pretty sure, even without these kick ROMs, the "abandonware" on EAB FTP is still seen as valid copyrighted material by more than one lawyer/judge/IP expert/...

Same thing I said to Predseda; you show me exactly where Amiga OS files / Kickstart ROMs and commercial programs / games still for sale are on the "EAB File Server" and I'll delete immediately!!!

Originally Posted by spudje

So to me it's a bit hypocritical to condemn the Apollo guys. Let's keep pointing them out and advise them to stop making Coffin, or distance from it, or discuss with the rights owners to make it as legal as possible. that's a much more constructive approach I would say.

They are distributing "Amiga OS 3.9" in their distro... you show me where there is Amiga OS media on the EAB File Server please?

I can pretty much guarantee that you won't find any.

[Retro1234]

Yes it contains OS3.9 and that's not right but doesn't mean you should censor it.

but I see his point, pointing out it has WHDload games etc(maybe from here) is a bit hypocritical.

but where do you stop try nearly every Coverdisk has LoadWB and you can start WinUae with a Kick from Relokick cant you.