19 June 2003, 00:25 | #21 | |
Give up the ghost
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The US market suffers from the effects of the status quo, which is all about marketing to the lowest common denominator. Sometimes I believe the only reason a business starts in this country is for the purpose of getting rich (as opposed to simply being successful). It's dog eat dog and if you don't crush your competition, it's very likely they will crush you, all in the quest for the brass ring. |
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19 June 2003, 00:49 | #22 | |
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Alot of companies these days are formed just to get rich quick. If they cant sucker normal people to invest in them they find idiot venture capitalists to do it for them. How many companies in the dot.com era didnt even make a penny of profit in their whole existence, or were given millions in capital for a product they gave away for free (buisiness model that could never bring in profit). Once the greed dies down and companies get back to long term growth ( will happen sooner or later when free money dries up and now that dividends in the US dont get taxed) companies will get back to trying to make a profit. End of rant. |
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19 June 2003, 01:45 | #23 | |
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Once 320x200 256 color games became common place on the PC, it was the turning of the tide for gamers to the PC platform and even basic vga sysytems with a hard drive were beginning to look more attractive to those looking at the cost of expanding their Amiga or abandoning the platform altogether. |
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19 June 2003, 01:55 | #24 | |
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Flicker free 640x480 on a good vga monitor pretty much doomed the amiga platform. PC's started getting updated hardware at a faster and faster pace and the prices kept dropping at the same time. 16 bit stereo sound and midi music addon boards with game support really pushed the games toward a PC. |
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19 June 2003, 02:28 | #25 | |
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19 June 2003, 02:37 | #26 | |
Give up the ghost
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19 June 2003, 03:09 | #27 |
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Every company that has a product to sell in a competative market uses advertising, price discounts, free samples, or anything else it can figure out to get peaople to A try the product, and B keep buying the product. Some advertisement doesnt even have anything to do with that product being offered.
Some spend millions on advertising, while others twist arms to get their products shown on store shelves, and then other dont do much of anything and hope word of mouth works. Each company is different because their products go after different demographics and their advertising budget varies alot. I drink Coke, coke advertisement is everywhere, tell me one person on this planet who has never tried or at least seen a coke can/bottle. Yet this company spends countless millions on advertising every year. And you know coke is doing everything it can to make Pepsi users switch to their product. The fact that Pespis has gained on coke means people have a real choice in what they want to drink, and do so. Commodore did a good job on killing atari computers in the US. I remember before I sold my C64 that I could get C64 games at the specialty computer store off the shelf, but atari games were special order and had 0 floor space. The PC did a better job of killing commodre (with help from CBM executives) but has not killed off apple. Actually apple has been thriving for years. People have a viable choice and some buy macs. Some people would say that giving Linux and openoffice out for FREE is an underhanded attack on companies that charge for their software (kind of like japan dumping steel below cost in the US long time ago). To me giving a product away in the hopes that some day down the line you might get some service dollars from it is a crappy buisiness move (unless your a crack dealer). Consumers are fickle, they will buy your product today and jump to somebody else tomorrow. Its up to CEO's to keep their company going in the direction the consumers are going or go out of buisiness. Some companies make a product that ends up generating 10000x the demand they thaught it would, they are lucky. Some make products that are decent, but find another company beat them to it, makes it better or cheaper and eats their lunch. Thats life. There were alot of factors that made some companies rise to where they are, these same factors eventually tear them down too. The IBM of today is not the same company it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or 100 years ago. Their products have changed dramatically since they were founded so they servive, commodore didnt so they are gone. Hell even Nintendo isnt what it used to be, and poor SEGA is a shell of its former self. |
19 June 2003, 03:44 | #28 | |
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By the time Amiga and ST were out, although superior in every way, it was hard for developers to ignore the numbers of clones out there. Comparing my first 4Mhz IBM PC to the capabilites of my C64 you would never get the impression that the PC would ever become a decent games platform. Even later on when my parents bought me a top of the line 8 Mhz IBM PC-AT with EGA video for $4000 it paled by comparison. Atari and Commodore sure had a good thing going for a while. Both companies sure had the talent they needed to succeed. I would have preferred for either one to continue on rather then see them both die as hardware companies. They truly had innovative products back then and one could only imagine what they would have brought to market if either company was thriving today. Things just do not seem as exciting anymore as when you picked up a copy of your favorite computer mag of the time and read about new Atari and Amiga systems coming out. You actually read every word of the article or review. |
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19 June 2003, 05:29 | #29 | |
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Even early in the PC revolution you had so many choices of OS like msdos, pcdos, drdos, os2, windows,desqview, geos, a bunch of unix I cant even remember. the hardware was completely open and manufactured by so many companies that anybody could get their foot in the door with a decent product and a decent product with a small market share meant a shitload of money to that company. Do you remember when IBM the maker of the platform tried to steer PC's into a different direction with MCA bus and the majority of companies said screw it and went with VESA and then PCI? No company on earth could have done that to commodore when they were in buisiness. Having a huge base meant prices dropped like a rock on equipment. If apple kept making their own designs like nubus instead of PCI and AGP, not using USB , PC printers, videocards, and monitors where would they be now? They were spending too much money on R&D to keep up. I get sick when I hear about all the tangents commodore went on before they finally died out. It also got alot harder for any company to be a player and really hard for companies to even get in the market anymore since you needed big dollars. Things dont seem exciting because of the PC consolidation. Cheaper, smaller, faster, more space isnt as exciting as something NEW. Commodre and Atari should have merged at one point and made an open standards computer for gamers, they would still be around today. Gamers are the ones who purchased amiga's and ST's yet both companies pretty much abandoned their markets ( no advertising, many years in between better hardware) trying to be a PC maker competing with each other and dozens of other companies in an area they had no hope of winning. The would have been what SONY is today but better. |
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19 June 2003, 05:32 | #30 | |
flaming faggot
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Re: Amiga and America
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16 bit computers did well here, from Atari to Amiga to Apple. |
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19 June 2003, 05:58 | #31 |
Give up the ghost
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@Oscar
Atari's problem in the 16-bit computer world was that rather than innovating with ANY degree of originality, everything was borrowed from something else to make their bastard clone, the ST. It had parts of MS-DOS (with it's 8+3, uppercase filenames, and even comptible file system, amongst other similarities); part of the Mac SE, whom it tried to buddy up with in the DTP market miserably with an awful early Pagestream; and finally, part of the Amiga. Yes, the ST hit the market before the Amiga, but Jay Miner had already been shopping the machine to Tramiel and his cronies. I've heard many variations on the story, but one thing you can bet on is that the slimiest version is probably the most accurate. The ST always looked like a half-cocked, rushed-out-the-door version of an A500, completely unfinished (no shell, no decent OS, no switchable-on-the-fly resolutions, no HAM, no decent sound hardware (instead, just pop in a $10 MIDI port!), no custom chipset, etc. Too often the ST is compared to the Amiga, which is quite unfair to the better machine. @Unknown_K In reference to your catalog of unscrupulous business practices used then and now, there are still laws that prohibit certain behavior. One cannot simply dismiss these simply because "that's how business works". And squashing competition cannot be done legally using the methods some use. Anymore than embezzlement can be. Mind you, in some cases a company can throw money at even our government in Washington and superior court judges will slap said companies lightly on the butt. Other times, companies have to fork over 89 million dollars to certain states due to their deeds. But if we are to simply dismiss this behavior as irrelevant or as just another phase of big business, we are slitting our own throats. Unfortunately my opposition to such practices is laughed at, scoffed at, and I am branded a zealot because I don't just accept it and play along. I read license agreements before clicking OK and people call me weird for it. So because the majority decides to piss away their rights, then any and all smarmy business deals are OK because most people don't care. Welcome to the USA. And ultimately, everywhere else. |
19 June 2003, 06:05 | #32 | |
epun umop ap!sdn
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Did they make manual typewriters or what? |
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19 June 2003, 06:23 | #33 | |
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They started in 1896 making a punch card tabulating machine for the US sencus. Before this machine it would have taken more then 10 years to count all the data, and the census was taken every 10 years (hence the need for something better). So yes they are OVER 100 years old. Check the link for a timeline. Didnt commodore start out as a maker of calculators? |
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19 June 2003, 06:38 | #34 |
epun umop ap!sdn
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OK... but they didn't exist as IBM until 1924
(pedantic, I know...) |
19 June 2003, 06:57 | #35 | |
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19 June 2003, 07:13 | #36 | |
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19 June 2003, 07:28 | #37 | |
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19 June 2003, 13:39 | #38 | |
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19 June 2003, 16:10 | #39 | |
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Still it showed some forward thinking. It wasn't a feature readily available in most platforms of that era. |
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19 June 2003, 17:32 | #40 |
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AHEM! Cough! COUGH!
Threadstealer!!
Twistin,(as usual), gave some very interesting insights into this issue ages ago... http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1437 And for good measure heaped endless praise on the resident numbskulls that made up CBM's management... http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?...2007#post12007 Sorry I'll go and have a throat drop now! |
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