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Old 25 July 2012, 11:11   #21
delshay
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Thats impressive speed I never tested 640x480. I always used GLQUAKEWOS @800x600 as standard and its very smooth but I don't think my frame rate is that high.

I think I will now do a test.
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Old 25 July 2012, 12:17   #22
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I'll include Quake 800x600 and take vids of other games also.

Delshay I'm interested to see your results
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Old 26 July 2012, 04:46   #23
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[ Show youtube player ]
just for kicks...
The speed of the game appears a lot quicker than the PC version - is this due to frameskips? You said its around 32 fps - surprised it plays well despite that!
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Old 26 July 2012, 09:26   #24
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The speed of the game appears a lot quicker than the PC version - is this due to frameskips? You said its around 32 fps - surprised it plays well despite that!
I didn't SAY anything, in the video it clearly shows 32.8 FPS heh
Which PC-version are you referring to? Quake is surely many times faster on a PC. I have no frameskip option specified so it don't skip any frames here IMO. It's just fast because of the "timedemo" option if that was what you meant.

delshay/kriz, any results yet? Do the screenmode-prefs files work out-of-the-box or did you need to create your own?
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Old 26 July 2012, 20:40   #25
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It will be a few days before I can do a test. It will be done on the card below.

http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3692
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Old 27 July 2012, 08:26   #26
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That's one beast of a card! Expecting monster speed
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Old 27 July 2012, 12:15   #27
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Quake results (with BlitzQuakeWOS/GLQuakeWOS_blitz)

"timedemo demo1"

screen res: 640x480
display: screen 26.3 fps
display: window 32.5 fps
I get 24.6 fps in a screen at 640x480x16 with BlitzQuake/GLQuake on a 68060@75MHz with 1/4 the clock speed, 1/2 the cache size, 1/2 the memory bandwidth (32 bit instead of 64 bit) and 1/2 the memory used. The AIM alliance will rule the future with PowerPC, or Apple will abandon it, buy P.A. Semi to kill their PowerPC and move to x86 and ARM, IBM will make unaffordable high end PowerPC processors for servers and Motorola will spin off Freescale which will make 5 year old PowerPC designs and license ARM to make state of the art processors that do more with less (like the 68060 above) .

Does the PowerPC auto extend it's stack (AmigaOS 68k does not)? Unless it extends the stack during the game, setting the stack size higher should not make a difference in game speed on the PowerPC.

The Warp3D QueueSize makes a big difference in Warp3D programs that use indirect mode and no difference on programs that use direct mode. You can try setting the variable ENVARC:Warp3D/QueueSize higher. I use 7000000 on the 68k. This memory for the queue will not be allocated if not used (direct mode). I hear Quake 2 68k uses indirect mode so likely the PPC version does also. SDL, MiniGL and StormMesa programs usually used indirect mode with the 68k even though it is officially antiquated.
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Old 27 July 2012, 21:39   #28
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@matthey:
I think the stack must be set manually for GLQUake WOS version but I'm not sure. Tested with your "QueueSize" value and it didn't give me any higher result, I have that value in 32768.

I also did speed tests with BlitzQuake 68k. First I ran it with the default script (512x384):
"stack 600000
glquake68k_blitz +map dummy -guardband -particles 64 -hicontrast -gamma 0.7 -bpp 16 -width 512 -height 384 -mem 16 -zone 1024 -audspeed 5513 -bpp 16 -nojoy -nocdaudio -nopsx"

result: 12.8 FPS

then I used the FullWin-script (640x480):
"stack 16384000
glquake68k_blitz +map dummy -particles 256 -hicontrast -gamma 0.7 -bpp 16 -windowmode -width 640 -mem 64 -nocdaudio -zone 1024 -audspeed 8000 -nojoy -nopsx -litfiles -lm_RGB"

result: 13.8 FPS

So a slightly higher resolution still gave 1 FPS more! But the graphics we're all messed up somehow but still the timedemo ran to the end. You have a steadily faster 68k there but still I don't get how you got that high performance result...did you use a tuned up script - maybe post it here?

All righty! As promised here are some new videos I made (with FullWin ofcourse):

[ Show youtube player ]

FPS was surprisingly low compared to 640x480 so I keep playing with that res...

[ Show youtube player ]

earlier result was 21 FPS, it seems to vary a little.

[ Show youtube player ]

Enjoy
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Old 27 July 2012, 23:08   #29
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@matthey:
I think the stack must be set manually for GLQUake WOS version but I'm not sure. Tested with your "QueueSize" value and it didn't give me any higher result, I have that value in 32768.
It was worth a try. You PPC guys may have newer versions of some of the Warp3D programs that use direct mode rendering now. The newest version of Warp3D may not even work with indirect mode anymore. There are other W3D ENV: variables that could make a big difference in speed. Have you tried any others?


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...
result: 13.8 FPS

So a slightly higher resolution still gave 1 FPS more! But the graphics we're all messed up somehow but still the timedemo ran to the end. You have a steadily faster 68k there but still I don't get how you got that high performance result...did you use a tuned up script - maybe post it here?
It's a 3000T with CSMK3 68060@75MHz + 50ns SIMMS, Mediator 3000T/4000T and Voodoo 4. I believe my GLQuake settings are default.
I have tweak the W3D libs:

http://www.heywheel.com/matthey/Amiga/Warp3D.lha

Quake 1 slows down a little when loading textures the first time but otherwise feels full speed. This is probably the slow gfx bus of the Mediator unfortunately. There is plenty more tweaking of the W3D libs possible. The original 68k W3D lib's code optimization is very poor.

Last edited by matthey; 27 July 2012 at 23:23.
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Old 27 July 2012, 23:41   #30
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Thanks! I'll try these libs. They are 68k only, right?
With your results the speed is really not very far away from PPC and that's cool

What other ENV-settings for Warp3D should I try? There aren't many other I know of (forbid/keeplock)...
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Old 28 July 2012, 03:20   #31
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Thanks! I'll try these libs. They are 68k only, right?
Yes. They are the 68k versions of W3D v4.

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Originally Posted by Bamiga2002 View Post
With your results the speed is really not very far away from PPC and that's cool
Some of the speedup is the libs above and some is the overclocking. My CSMK3 not only has 50% faster CPU but also 50% faster memory than a stock 68060@50MHz.

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What other ENV-settings for Warp3D should I try? There aren't many other I know of (forbid/keeplock)...
These are the interesting ones

Permedia2 driver:

Warp3D/Permedia2/Dither (boolean) Default=0
Warp3D/Permedia2/FColor ?
Warp3D/Permedia2/Fog (string?) Default="linear"? (exp and exp2 or exp_2)?

Karlos would probably know what these env: variables do. Dither is obvious and documented. Turning on may cause a slow down but increase quality. The other env: settings I see from peeking in the libraries. I have no clue what FColor does. Fog can probably be linear, exp or exp_2. Linear fogging is the best quality but slowest and exp is the fastest but lowest quality.

Avenger driver:

Warp3D/Avenger/AntiAlias (boolean) Default=0? (I have enabled)
Warp3D/Avenger/Dither (boolean) Default=1?
Warp3D/Avenger/DitherAlgo (string) Default="4x4"? (or "2x2" ordered)?

None of these are in my documentation. They are easy enough though. Dithering supposedly does not slow down rendering on the Avenger. Anti-aliasing may although it looks like it's off by default.
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Old 30 July 2012, 12:43   #32
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Hi matthey, I tried your libs but they only give me grey screen...are they supposed to work on my setup? Do I need to set MMU=YES on Mediator ENV?

I also tried the Avenger-ENVs by hand that aren't listed in any Prefs-program I tried (WOSPrefs/WarpOS in OS3.9). I think these proggys should be updated to include these missing ENV-variables. But who would do it?

I will test how these missing ENVs affect performance
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Old 31 July 2012, 09:11   #33
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Hi matthey, I tried your libs but they only give me grey screen...are they supposed to work on my setup? Do I need to set MMU=YES on Mediator ENV?
Oh yea, you have a 1200 version of the Mediator. That's a little trickier but I know of at least one person that got the patched libs working on a 1200 Mediator (I might have to do some investigating). I believe he used MMU=YES to get it to work. Why aren't you running MMU=YES anyway? It might be better performance and the non-MMU version is a hack as I recall. There may be a jumper on the Mediator needed for MMU=NO as well as the software (including patched W3D libs) to support it. You can use the Warp3D.library by itself with the Mediator 1200 although the majority of the speedup (and work) is in the Avenger libs. Some parts are significantly faster like indirect mode (68k SDL, StormMesa and MiniGL) and auto mipmap creation but almost everything is faster to a lesser degree.
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Old 31 July 2012, 09:58   #34
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I may have found a solution for the graphics problem. I have MMU=NO because I remember that PPC-Warp3D games do not work if I set MMU=YES. It's been some time and I must test this again

and matthey can you try Quake again with the FullWin-boost, would be interesting to get some results =)

Last edited by Bamiga2002; 31 July 2012 at 10:36.
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Old 01 August 2012, 09:00   #35
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Yep MMU=YES results in not-working PPC-games here. But I got BlitzQuake 68k to work without graphic glitches by setting Mediator jumper WAIT (closed). But still didn't get your tweaked libraries working. Tried renaming, swapping Warp3D-librarys, playing with Mediator ENV-vars but no go. Medconfig reports these libs as A3000/A4000 libs by default. BlitzQuake gave me error #8000000B in startup.
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Old 02 August 2012, 10:34   #36
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Yep MMU=YES results in not-working PPC-games here.
Hmm. I had some problems with MMU=YES at one time also. A Mediator upgrade and switching to the Mu 68060.library fixed the problem:

http://aminet.net/util/libs/MMULib.lha

The Mu 68060.library seems to be less buggy and a little faster but isn't easy to install. It's possible that you need the P5 68060.library for the PPC.

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But I got BlitzQuake 68k to work without graphic glitches by setting Mediator jumper WAIT (closed). But still didn't get your tweaked libraries working.
Not even the new Warp3D.library by itself?

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Tried renaming, swapping Warp3D-librarys, playing with Mediator ENV-vars but no go. Medconfig reports these libs as A3000/A4000 libs by default
The Avenger libraries are the 3000/4000 versions. The 1200 MMU versions of the Avenger libraries are very similar and may even be interchangeable. The non-MMU 1200 versions use tricks and hacks to control the caching and remap the large gfx card address space. The new Warp3D.library should work with any 68k Warp3D setup.
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Old 02 August 2012, 10:57   #37
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Quote:
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Hmm. I had some problems with MMU=YES at one time also. A Mediator upgrade and switching to the Mu 68060.library fixed the problem:

http://aminet.net/util/libs/MMULib.lha

The Mu 68060.library seems to be less buggy and a little faster but isn't easy to install. It's possible that you need the P5 68060.library for the PPC.
Thanks I was about to install this some time ago but I RTFM and it doesn't seem a feasible option for a BPPC-card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthey
Not even the new Warp3D.library by itself?
Nope, error #8000000B or #80000003 when starting Quake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthey
The Avenger libraries are the 3000/4000 versions. The 1200 MMU versions of the Avenger libraries are very similar and may even be interchangeable. The non-MMU 1200 versions use tricks and hacks to control the caching and remap the large gfx card address space. The new Warp3D.library should work with any 68k Warp3D setup.
Can you dig some install-instructions for me to get this working? You mentioned someone got it working for an A1200.
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Old 03 August 2012, 03:37   #38
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Can you dig some install-instructions for me to get this working? You mentioned someone got it working for an A1200.
I looked back at the old e-mails. It was Philippe Bovier (aka mrodfr) that had the new W3D libs working on a Blizzard 1260/50 and Mediator 1200. He used the Mu 68060.library and installation. W3D worked in both MMU and non MMU mode although MMU mode seemed to be more reliable. I don't know how he installed the libs. I believe Cosmos also has a working 1200 setup with the new libs. You would have to contact them for more info.
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Old 03 August 2012, 14:29   #39
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Thanks for infos

matthey how much FPS do you get if you run Quake in window-mode with FullWin?

Last edited by Bamiga2002; 03 August 2012 at 15:01.
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Old 05 August 2012, 16:53   #40
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matthey how much FPS do you get if you run Quake in window-mode with FullWin?
Quake gave me 24.4 fps with your settings in window mode or not. Window mode only appears to be faster on the PPC. My fps results were slightly below my normal settings but your settings look a little better (because of your high gamma?). Your high -particles I believe cause the slowdown and I don't notice much difference (pixels flying everywhere don't look that good to me either). I changed to your gamma and now have these settings:

glquake68k_blitz +map dummy -guardband -particles 64 -hicontrast -gamma 0.7 -bpp 16 -width 640 -height 480 -mem 16 -zone 1024 -audspeed 5513 -nocdaudio -nopsx -lm_RGB

I get 24.7 fps with these settings. I may have a slight speedup because of the P96 "Experimental" variable with no noticeable detrimental effects so far. Thanks for that idea.

Last edited by matthey; 05 August 2012 at 17:11.
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