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Old 19 March 2020, 20:18   #1
BarryB
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Can you format more than 80 tracks on an Amiga?

Started to image my non-original 'collection' with my Kryoflux and the first disks to image were a cracked copy of Dream Web AGA by PRESTiGE but Disk 1,2,3 and 5 are formatted to track 81? (track 0 being the first track so really 82 tracks)

Anyone know of anything on the Amiga that actually used 82 tracks of the disk? I must have copied them with X-Copy but never noticed the 2 extra tracks being copied, weird!

I don't 'think' there is a way to format to track 81 and have Workbench see it as a 902k disk, but nothing stopping someone creating their own code to read/write to track 81 I guess!

*UPDATE*
Just found another disk in the same batch i'm imaging that's also formatted to track 81, this has SWIV on it so I must have had at least those 5 disks and copied over them unaware they were formatted to track 81!

@no9: Yeah, probably these were formatted using that or something similar, no way of knowing for sure though.

Last edited by BarryB; 19 March 2020 at 22:27.
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Old 19 March 2020, 21:54   #2
no9
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http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/Diskspr3
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Old 20 March 2020, 00:26   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post
Started to image my non-original 'collection' with my Kryoflux and the first disks to image were a cracked copy of Dream Web AGA by PRESTiGE but Disk 1,2,3 and 5 are formatted to track 81? (track 0 being the first track so really 82 tracks)

Anyone know of anything on the Amiga that actually used 82 tracks of the disk? I must have copied them with X-Copy but never noticed the 2 extra tracks being copied, weird!

I don't 'think' there is a way to format to track 81 and have Workbench see it as a 902k disk, but nothing stopping someone creating their own code to read/write to track 81 I guess!

*UPDATE*
Just found another disk in the same batch i'm imaging that's also formatted to track 81, this has SWIV on it so I must have had at least those 5 disks and copied over them unaware they were formatted to track 81!

@no9: Yeah, probably these were formatted using that or something similar, no way of knowing for sure though.
answer short : ADF are limited to 79 tracks.
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Old 20 March 2020, 00:45   #4
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AUI used to use the DiskSpare format
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Old 20 March 2020, 09:03   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobby_UK View Post
AUI used to use the DiskSpare format
diskspare = extended ADF.
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Old 20 March 2020, 17:30   #6
BarryB
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I can't remember if I ever used diskspare or not, does the diskpare format create normal ADOS tracks as I have about 5 disks that show ADOS tracks on 80/81!
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Old 20 March 2020, 18:02   #7
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No idea what Denis is on about, ADF format can be more than 79 tracks so long as the emulator/software using it knows it, i.e. so long as you dont go read beyond the end of the file, it will still work.

Amiga can format and use upto track 82, but Amiga was configured from the get go to be RELIABLE AND CONSISTENT upto 80 tracks.

Think there was a few demos that went upto track 81 but it wasnt a regular thing.
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Old 20 March 2020, 18:54   #8
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Isn't there also some originals that use data written above trk 80 as part of their copy protection scheme?
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Old 20 March 2020, 18:59   #9
BarryB
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@Galahad: That's what i'm wondering, if they were some demo disks I obtained/copied and never noticed they were using 82 tracks then re-used the disks leaving the extra 2 tracks untouched! So, what Amiga demos used 82 tracks then?

@demolition: Quite a few games used track 80 for protection, none that I know used tracks 80+ for game data!
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Old 20 March 2020, 21:12   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post
@demolition: Quite a few games used track 80 for protection, none that I know used tracks 80+ for game data!

Doesn't Cannon Fodder store scores / savegames in an extra track? Or am I dreaming that? (I seem to remember it being a problem for the Minimig.)


As for Diskspare, most of its extra capacity came from squeezing 12 sectors into every track - though it could do 82 tracks if the drive was capable of it.
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Old 21 March 2020, 12:14   #11
BarryB
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@robinsonb5: Not sure about save games but some stored high scores on track 80!

I've now imaged about 60 disks and 20 of them show 82 tracks? I know X-Copy can format 82 tracks, and one of those disks did have show (W)XCOPY in all the tracks but one seemed to have the high score table from The Immortal in track 80?
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Old 21 March 2020, 13:46   #12
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Quote:
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@demolition: Quite a few games used track 80 for protection, none that I know used tracks 80+ for game data!

Scooby & Scrappy-Doo would like a word with you! :P
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Old 21 March 2020, 16:24   #13
BarryB
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Scooby & Scrappy-Doo would like a word with you! :P
That's why I said 'none that I know' and that disk isn't ADOS on tracks 80/81 but a format by Gary Antcliffe I think, all mine are ADOS!

Anyway, you've earned a Scooby Snack for that
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Old 21 March 2020, 21:38   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galahad/FLT View Post
No idea what Denis is on about, ADF format can be more than 79 tracks so long as the emulator/software using it knows it, i.e. so long as you dont go read beyond the end of the file, it will still work.

Amiga can format and use upto track 82, but Amiga was configured from the get go to be RELIABLE AND CONSISTENT upto 80 tracks.

Think there was a few demos that went upto track 81 but it wasnt a regular thing.
The Standard ADF format use 79 tracks maximum. If you have tracks 80 or 81 in, it's an overdump.

However, in extended ADF, you can go up to 84 tracks.
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Old 21 March 2020, 21:39   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneK View Post
Scooby & Scrappy-Doo would like a word with you! :P
yes Scooby use 84 tracks (lol). Stardust use 82 tracks.
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Old 21 March 2020, 22:58   #16
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Checking the IPF's, Scooby Doo uses 82 tracks and Stardust uses 83 tracks
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Old 21 March 2020, 23:34   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post
Checking the IPF's, Scooby Doo uses 82 tracks and Stardust uses 83 tracks
my bad yes Stardust use 83 tracks. Scooby Doo use only 82 ? strange, i remembered 84, and the only game using this much tracks.
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Old 22 March 2020, 00:40   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
The Standard ADF format use 79 tracks maximum. If you have tracks 80 or 81 in, it's an overdump.

However, in extended ADF, you can go up to 84 tracks.
Doesnt matter what max track ADF uses, you can specifiy 82 tracks, so long as the program within that ADF expects to load that much data just as you can set an ADF to only need the first 30tracks if thats all the program within it needs to load.

An ADF can be any amount of tracks, the USUAL is 80 (you keep forgetting track 0), its not an overdump if the program within it uses that extra data, overdump suggests extra captured data that isnt used nor required.
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Old 23 March 2020, 16:35   #19
BarryB
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Well, out of 183 disks imaged so far, 48 of them are formatted to track 82, why I do not know?
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