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Old 15 June 2017, 04:11   #21
grelbfarlk
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The story goes at least from someone's post on Amiga.org is that at least on the CSPPC it would be equipped with a 400MHz PPC. Maybe the Blizzard PPC will be similar.
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Old 15 June 2017, 09:44   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
I think this is totally pointless concept....what would you do with a slow PPC plug-in card for a Classic Amiga these days? I guess you could run an obsolete build of OS4 and older PPC software but that's about it really.
I'd prefer repro Blizzard 1260 cards too, but the BPPC is the 2nd best thing. That is unless he chooses to equip them with 040s, because you can't get 060s at reasonable quantities.
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Old 15 June 2017, 15:07   #23
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IMHO it was a nice option till he got to those prices. I just prefer to await for a release of a Vampire for the 1200.
The PPC 603e is about 200+ MIPS. I don't think the Vampire can get up to that number. But anything above 100+ MIPS is sweet.
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Old 15 June 2017, 15:16   #24
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Yes, a faster CPU is always a bonus, but bear in mind that PPC MIPS values are not really comparable to 68K MIPS values (or any other CPU type for that matter). And having the horsepower there is nice, but there isn't a whole lot of software to take advantage of it under OS3. OS4 is a possibility, but will be limited in use on such a card.
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Old 15 June 2017, 15:57   #25
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We know that the standalone vampire board is using a Cyclone 5 FPGA instead of the Cyclone 3 used on the Vampire 2 generation of existing accelerators. It is therefore highly likely that the Vampire 1200 will also use a Cyclone 5, so whilst we don't have any performance figures yet I would expect a reasonable bump from the Sysinfo MIPS figures for the Vampire 2. Given that the CISC 680x0 instruction set is more efficient than RISC PPC in well coded software, I doubt a 200MIPS PPC card would have much if any performance advantage over the Vampire 1200 unless used in a co-processor role for specific tasks running in parallel with a powerful 680x0 CPU.
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Old 15 June 2017, 16:38   #26
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We know that the standalone vampire board is using a Cyclone 5 FPGA instead of the Cyclone 3 used on the Vampire 2 generation of existing accelerators. It is therefore highly likely that the Vampire 1200 will also use a Cyclone 5, so whilst we don't have any performance figures yet I would expect a reasonable bump from the Sysinfo MIPS figures for the Vampire 2. Given that the CISC 680x0 instruction set is more efficient than RISC PPC in well coded software, I doubt a 200MIPS PPC card would have much if any performance advantage over the Vampire 1200 unless used in a co-processor role for specific tasks running in parallel with a powerful 680x0 CPU.
Seems like the Cyclone V is almost double the clock speed of the III. Also 28 nm technology vs 65nm and they are 4 years apart. So I am guessing the Apollo core could get 250MIPs+ quite easily on the Cyclone V.

I would personally be more that happy to put my money on the Vampire. The only downside with the FPGAs is that there hasn't been any open source cores for 68060 or even PPC. However trying to source even a few 68060 Chips with MPU+FPU or even a PPC 603e would limit the number of the Phase 5 boards produced, if they get to that point. The 68060 will be especially hard to get in high quantities. But they could always just produce the board with a socket and you use your own 060 CPU.

These are the only 68000 based cores I am aware of.

http://opencores.org/project,tg68 (I think this is the core minimig is using)
http://opencores.org/project,ao68000

Does anyone know what core the Vampire is using? They call it Apollo core but my guess is that they probably adapted one of the open cores already available.

Last edited by antiriad76; 15 June 2017 at 16:48.
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Old 15 June 2017, 16:55   #27
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$1500??


Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
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Old 15 June 2017, 17:08   #28
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The Apollo core is not derived from any of the other 680x0 cores, it was written from scratch by group of current/former IBM CPU designers. It has been in development for about ten years and first became public knowledge when associated with the Natami project.
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Old 15 June 2017, 17:12   #29
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Originally Posted by antiriad76 View Post
The PPC 603e is about 200+ MIPS. I don't think the Vampire can get up to that number.
The Vampire shreds the 603 in integer performance. Not only because one 68k instruction does the work of many PPC instructions but also because its memory interface is a lot faster than that of the old 603 PPC cards.
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Does anyone know what core the Vampire is using? They call it Apollo core but my guess is that they probably adapted one of the open cores already available.
Your guess is wrong. The core in the Vampire is an independent development which is roughly like a Pentium II to an 8086 when compared to the tg68.
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Old 15 June 2017, 17:13   #30
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$1500??


Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Yup.
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Old 15 June 2017, 17:24   #31
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$1500??


Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Why do I love Amigas so much when they break my wallet.
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Old 15 June 2017, 17:32   #32
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Again, what is the purpose of outdated PPC technology being used nowadays on a system that has been hacked to sort of support it?

If you love PPC technology so much get a Powermac G5 for a fraction of $1500 and use it with some really cool shit. You can even run E-UAE on it or an old port of FS-UAE! And PMac G5s are beasts, I have one and I totally love it. I found it on the curb. I fixed it and upgraded it for about $50. Runs circles around any Amiga PPC shit you can find out there and does much more.

Seriously, seriously don't understand the purpose of PPC on an Amiga, never did. 68k seems the way to go and Vampire seems like the only contestant to push raw power out of 68K right now, if that's your kinda thing.

I mean, for $1500? That puts it reaaaally into perspective. If it was $500, that's a lot, but, I think hardcore hobbyists would buy it and be happy with it. But even iff you really really really want a PPC and have that kinda money to burn, you might as well but one of the PPC motherboards like X5000 or whatever.
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Old 15 June 2017, 18:17   #33
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Again, what is the purpose of outdated PPC technology being used nowadays on a system that has been hacked to sort of support it?

If you love PPC technology so much get a Powermac G5 for a fraction of $1500 and use it with some really cool shit. You can even run E-UAE on it or an old port of FS-UAE! And PMac G5s are beasts, I have one and I totally love it. I found it on the curb. I fixed it and upgraded it for about $50. Runs circles around any Amiga PPC shit you can find out there and does much more.

Seriously, seriously don't understand the purpose of PPC on an Amiga, never did. 68k seems the way to go and Vampire seems like the only contestant to push raw power out of 68K right now, if that's your kinda thing.

I mean, for $1500? That puts it reaaaally into perspective. If it was $500, that's a lot, but, I think hardcore hobbyists would buy it and be happy with it. But even iff you really really really want a PPC and have that kinda money to burn, you might as well but one of the PPC motherboards like X5000 or whatever.
I get 3000 Mips on WinUAE running OS4 with PPC Emulation. I think it is faster than the X1000. So I agree that Emulation and Pure 68000 FPGA Emulation is much better rather that trying to reproduce original hardware. My guess is that Phase 5 might still have some parts in stock for a few hundred boards so they want to jump into the current $800+ PPC/060 Market for the Amiga.

But I really just love the Ceramic package of the 060. It brings me back to the Pentium/486 DX Days.

In addition I haven't seen any significant price drops in any of the 060 Amiga Accelerators on E-Bay recently as somebody could have expected with the Intro of the Vampire into the market.

BTW The G5 Box is pure P0rn. It is really a piece of art.
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Old 15 June 2017, 20:01   #34
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People will always want original hardware, that's why 060 cards have kept their value.
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Old 15 June 2017, 20:41   #35
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Well but there are people who just want PPC and I am sure they are better off getting an AEON motherboard than fitting an Amiga with one of these.

I fail to see the exact kind of market this card could have at that price point.

The 060 accelerators are not cheaper with the Vampire introduction, because Vampire will not replace one, at least not for a while. Compatibility is just not there, and they are quite different products.
When Vampire gets to do everything an 060 can do, prices MIGHT drop. Or not. Amiga "market" is crazy and unpredictable at times.
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Old 15 June 2017, 21:37   #36
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I think card is for people want to run WarpOS stuff on OS39. As you said people who want MOS or OS4 running already have cheaper motherboards.
I missed the $1500 price point, which is around what the used BPPC cards tend to go. I certainly don't plan to mortgage my house just to get one of these if it ever gets produced
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Old 16 June 2017, 01:37   #37
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If it does get shipped with a 300MHz PPC then there are certainly people who will buy one. From Fitzsteve's video SysSpeed shows the PPC getting 400MIPS and 251MFLOPS. Here is his video with a BVision.
[ Show youtube player ]

I just hope they do reproduce GRex as they have announced.
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Old 16 June 2017, 02:57   #38
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My opinion:

Just a simple thought, a simple thing: You can not run this kind of old accelerators at such kind of speeds without some noisy fans, several ones if you want to have a graphic card like a -second hand- BVision (the only one accepted on a desktop A1200).

Not talking about prices, but that doesn't happen with a fpga card. Yes, you can put a fan and some heatsinks if you want to. You'll also have an integrated graphics card included.

And that paying a fraction of the other option price.

Best "old option" for me would be a new B1260, but if it's going for 400€ or more, then I don't want it.
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Old 16 June 2017, 04:09   #39
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Right, well I don't think that anyone would recommend running one of the 300MHz BPPCs without towering the A1200 or making some extra modifications; new power supply, fans, etc. The GRex was for towered A1200s for discrete video cards.

So is it a new rule that every thread where someone announces a new piece of hardware we should post "I don't want it?" I'm sure that is very encouraging to people who are designing and building cards for our very small market. Let's just pop into the Terrible Fire thread, the VA2000 thread and that new IDE controller thread and say "I don't want it" since we have an A3640, CV64 and a FastIDE MK-XX. That's really productive discourse.
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Old 16 June 2017, 05:52   #40
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I'm sure that is very encouraging to people who are designing and building cards for our very small market.
If they are intending to market to this small market, shouldn't they listen?

In any case, there's as many "I don't want it" as "I want it" and also as "I want this and that but not that" and "I want it with everything but with nothing" and "please send me mine with fish & chips" and etc...

In a world where nobody can agree on "what is Amiga" and there are actually at least 3 valid (or rather, more widely accepted) answers to the question, you are bound to find this kinda response, especially with items that seem to try or unintentionally land between a couple of those notions (like these cards or Vampire).
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