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Old 27 February 2017, 16:05   #1
Vollldo
 
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Rainbow Island SE (alternative palette)

Thanks to earok's tutorial i'm patching the Rainbow Islands too vivid palette. Island 1 WIP screenshots below. Another version matching the coin-op palette will be also released, the first version will keep a light blue sky for Island 1 (dark blue one in the coin-op).

New palette on the left, old one on the right. Screenshots were taken in WinUAE, I'm using the "Rainbow Islands (1990)(Ocean)[cr QTX][t +2 Slipstream].adf" file since this one displays the title screen.

Note that the palette is not totally modified YET : colors 7, 9, 10 and 11 are still the original ones. Some will maybe remain unchanged, depending experimentation results.

Any opinion, suggestions or help are welcome.
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Name:	Rainbow Islands (1990)(Ocean)[cr QTX][t +2 Slipstream][h Blanc-guilhon, Lionel]_007.png
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Size:	10.8 KB
ID:	52242   Click image for larger version

Name:	Rainbow Islands (1990)(Ocean)[cr QTX][t +2 Slipstream]_001.png
Views:	857
Size:	11.0 KB
ID:	52243  

Last edited by Vollldo; 27 February 2017 at 16:10.
 
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Old 01 March 2017, 00:11   #2
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Insects world 1 finalized, here is a screenshot taken with WinUAE.
Work on world 2 starts tomorow !

Like the new palette ?
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Old 01 March 2017, 00:16   #3
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My friend, I'm going to be totally honest here...

Yes, the palette isn't identical to the arcade version. So what? It doesn't differ that much.

It's not like it suffers from the Atari ST "dark palette" problem...

For me the Amiga version is a very good port indeed. Yes, it's missing some things that the arcade version had but in 1989 I was (and still am) very happy with this port

I don't know; I just think it's a lot of effort you're going through for really not much gain at all...
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Old 01 March 2017, 00:39   #4
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I actually like the colorful Amiga palette more than the original Arcade. It's suits the game theme better imo.
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Old 01 March 2017, 00:53   #5
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Yeah; don't really see the need to change it (hence my post)
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Old 01 March 2017, 00:58   #6
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Well, I disagree.

The Amiga game IS a very good port (how good it is isn't the topic, i like it a lot even it's not a perfect convertion) but the palette is TOO MUCH vivid, saturated, and "slimes" a lot. The Amiga colors choice didn't do justice to this very good game honestly...

The "ST dark palette" syndrom is a well known problem, but in this case it's not the problem at all : Rainbow Islands just suffers of a *** very *** bad choice of colors on an artistic point of view.

I didn't darken the colors (it would have taken me 15 minutes to patch the whole game in this case !), I totally changed them in soft, pastel and visually clearer and more appealing tones. Put the old and new ones together and you will see plenty of subtiles changes that make the game BETTER TO PLAY. The sprites detach a lot more, everything is a lot clearer. I challenge you to play the original one after have played the new palette one. I tried, and I switched to the new one immediatly : just impossible anymore now to stand the agressive colors they used !

Another one that suffers of a bad artistic color choice is Golden Axe. Just run the Arcade or even the Genesis version and you will see that the Amiga "all-orangina-shake-me-shake-me-baby" palette makes the game mood totally different. I will patch it when Rainbow Islands will be done.

If you prefer to loose your eyes health by playing the original version you can of course, but don't count on me to caution a such risky addiction eh eh. . I'm sure you can find people in this forum who will tell you that the original palette of Wonderdog is satisfying, or worst even better than the wonderfull new one that earok did. And it would be a non sense since the new palette is a real beauty^^. Don't accept inertia my friend : if something can be improved to make a game better then it's always a plus. And i know that you share this philosophy because of your "HD to ADF" threads or your constant positive behaviour to request/bring new stuffs.

You're right on 1 point though : it was a lot of effort to find a great palette for this first world since MANY tiles and sprites share colors. But as for now i only had super positive comments on facebook and people encourage me to finish quickly, so i presume that i'm not doing this in a vain way.
 
Old 01 March 2017, 01:01   #7
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Quote:
I actually like the colorful Amiga palette more than the original Arcade. It's suits the game theme better imo.
The palette i choosed has similar tones, but improved. You can't seriously say that agressive pure yellow, red, orange and blue match well together. Put the two screenshots side by side and look how the colors just jump to your throat to kill you lol. As i said just use the original agressive palette if you prefer it, but I'm really surprise because I only had super positive comments (about professionnal graphists more over).

And come on, you can't decently tell that the Amiga palette is better than the coin-op. It's non sense, the coin-op palette is 35 colors, everything just flows better on the screen.

Look for example the blue of the sky and the green of the trees in the original Amiga version : they don't match together at all. The green is too light and seems to slime inside the blue. 30 years ago when i was doing graphics on OCP Art Studio on CPC there were colors to *** NEVER, EVER *** put side by side. These two are an example.

Last edited by Vollldo; 01 March 2017 at 01:09.
 
Old 01 March 2017, 01:16   #8
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It's my opinion, a preference. Which has nothing to do with "nonsense". Normally i don't like these extremely vivid colors in games but here it makes perfectly sense. If you want to hack Amiga games with an awful palette, select Chaos Engine AGA/CD32 or Speedball 2 CD32.
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Old 01 March 2017, 01:26   #9
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Not my opinion, the original Amiga palette is just terrible in an OBJECTIVE graphist point of view. Don't forget your sun glasses to play the old version, otherwise you could finish blind prematurely. If you don't like the new palette then stick to the original one. And i like a lot Chaos Engine and Speedball 2 AGA, so i won't patch them... The next one is Golden Axe, bye bye to the orange syndrome.
 
Old 01 March 2017, 01:31   #10
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Don't forget your sun glasses to play the old version, otherwise you could finish blind prematurely.
Why? I play it on a CRT TV with RGB thus the colors aren't that bright. They are just right. Just like Damien i don't want to demotivate you, only the game choice seems a bit odd.
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Old 01 March 2017, 01:41   #11
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I play it on a CRT TV too, and the colors are totally not right. The coin-op graphists didn't choose pastel tones by random. Note that you are one of the few whom I ever talked who claims that the Amiga Rainbow Islands palette isn't damn agressive, and worst, better than the coin-op one. It's your opinion ok, but your opinion doesn't reflect at all the general feeling about this game. The vast majority of people consider the coin-op and the pc-engine versions as a pure perfection, and again that's not a random.

As far as i remember I always blamed them to have choose such colors. And believe me, I just LOVE this game, it's one of my fav ever (hence the choice !). I still remember playing it when i was at highschool, "F*** why this blue sky ?! Why pure yellow mixed with pure orange ?!"... And many more. The Amiga can do better with a 4096 colors palette, the colors choice were kinda basic (too much RGB components to ZERO !) and I suspect behind this rushed choice an intentional willing to have an easy ST port (or vice versa !).

Note that people apparently love the new palette, I have a bunch list of positive and encouraging messages in facebook mailbox (more than 14 000 members into the Amiga group !).

And again, as i said, if you like the original strange palette then stick with it. Me, and plenty of others, will savior the new colors and an improved gameplay because of a better readibility. Love the the the bugs and flowers appears well on the darkened trees, sorry !

Quote:
Yes, the palette isn't identical to the arcade version. So what? It doesn't differ that much.
Ah, an another thing : I think you didn't compare the two since a lot of time because the coin-op palette differs A LOT of the Amiga one. The PC-Engine palette is the nearest. Since i analyzed very precisely how the colors are used in the Coin-op/Amiga/PC-Engine versions (i used Photoshop with a pixel size magnify), I can also tell you that the Amiga version could have used them a lot cleverly. Plenty of tiles could have been more colored on Amiga by using the 16 avaible colors : they had the colors, they just didn't use it !!! Simply unforgivable. It's one of my fav game of all time that's why i am kinda uncompromising.

Last edited by Vollldo; 01 March 2017 at 02:01.
 
Old 01 March 2017, 02:43   #12
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Find a way to add the three hidden islands again and then i will salute your efforts!
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Old 01 March 2017, 08:06   #13
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My Opinion: I dont like the new Palette. Maybe a comparison: Its like the difference between iOS6 and iOS7. Of course in an artistical view the changes may make sense but in usability and human feeling not. the colors are to hard and blending, too much contrast. For me it is hard to determine the important objects because the background is getting the same attention.

I honor your work but I think that you really dont solve a problem.
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Old 01 March 2017, 10:28   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vollldo View Post
I play it on a CRT TV too, and the colors are totally not right. The coin-op graphists didn't choose pastel tones by random. Note that you are one of the few whom I ever talked who claims that the Amiga Rainbow Islands palette isn't damn agressive, and worst, better than the coin-op one. It's your opinion ok, but your opinion doesn't reflect at all the general feeling about this game. The vast majority of people consider the coin-op and the pc-engine versions as a pure perfection, and again that's not a random.

As far as i remember I always blamed them to have choose such colors. And believe me, I just LOVE this game, it's one of my fav ever (hence the choice !). I still remember playing it when i was at highschool, "F*** why this blue sky ?! Why pure yellow mixed with pure orange ?!"... And many more. The Amiga can do better with a 4096 colors palette, the colors choice were kinda basic (too much RGB components to ZERO !) and I suspect behind this rushed choice an intentional willing to have an easy ST port (or vice versa !).

Note that people apparently love the new palette, I have a bunch list of positive and encouraging messages in facebook mailbox (more than 14 000 members into the Amiga group !).

And again, as i said, if you like the original strange palette then stick with it. Me, and plenty of others, will savior the new colors and an improved gameplay because of a better readibility. Love the the the bugs and flowers appears well on the darkened trees, sorry !


Ah, an another thing : I think you didn't compare the two since a lot of time because the coin-op palette differs A LOT of the Amiga one. The PC-Engine palette is the nearest. Since i analyzed very precisely how the colors are used in the Coin-op/Amiga/PC-Engine versions (i used Photoshop with a pixel size magnify), I can also tell you that the Amiga version could have used them a lot cleverly. Plenty of tiles could have been more colored on Amiga by using the 16 avaible colors : they had the colors, they just didn't use it !!! Simply unforgivable. It's one of my fav game of all time that's why i am kinda uncompromising.
Rainbow Islands Use color palettes encoded on a 512 colors range.

I suspect the graphics to be in PC1 format from the start.... Hence those bizarre tones.

Golden Axe Amiga has excellently replicated graphics, but once again, those are Atari ST PC1 files screens 320x200 with header shopped-off !

Hence the color tones on this one too. In real good Amiga 32 colors, Golden Axe would have been awesome

I too prefer great vivid colors to the actual colors used on Rainbow Islands.

The amiga is made to have vivid palettes, not dark or tarnish ones.

Exactly like the CPC ? Or the arcade, which has very neat and bright colors
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Old 01 March 2017, 11:23   #15
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The palette was fine no need to change
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Old 01 March 2017, 11:26   #16
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Ok guys, just use the original terrible palette. Considering the amount of positive opinions that people left this night on my fb, completed with an intensive play test by 10 persons who confirmed the benefits of the new palette, it's my turn to be honest with you : either your daltonian, or blind, or simply locked in an Amiga fan like attitude that prevents you from seeing evidences.

And Dennis, stop saying "n'importe quoi" about the Amiga palette : the Amiga has 4096 colors and is not made to propose vivid palettes. I almost swallowed my toungue when I did read a such idioty seriously ! The CPC has 27 colors, they choosed a lot of vivid colors. On Amiga we have the choice to express various shades. Don't force me to write here a list of HUNDRED games you perfectly know that uses the exact contrary of a vivid palette and are considered as a graphical accomplishment by the whole Amiga community !!!! Oh man, did i whisper... Speedball 2 on OCS for example ? Ups sorry the words came out of my mouth lol.

My turn to be honest by taking a revealing example : why do you think they didn't choosed a pure yellow in the world 1 level 1 coin-op version ? To make the yellow items (the lemon in the right at the very beginning says everything lol) be clearly detachable of the bricks ! On Amiga they used 16 colors only : they did the bad choice to choose a pure yellow to draw yellow items AND the bricks. Result is that the bricks dominate and make the yellow items totally lost in a yellow sea (the exact contrary of BrenMxGuire wrote above, the sprites are very difficult to see with the original palette). I choosed the best compromise since the yellow color is shared by fruits and bricks : still a yellow (lemons aren't red) but softer one not to be agressed by the predominance of the bricks ! Adding less agressive sky and all the rest completes the task. On an artistic and also readability point of view the game plays 10 times better.

Look at me into my eyes and dare to write that they would have drawn the bricks in pure yellow if they would have choosed a 32 colors mode. They would have choosen the same tone than the coin-op to make item be separated, that's an evidence and not my opinion. Sorry but bad faith fan boy attitude here hey.

Last edited by Vollldo; 01 March 2017 at 11:32.
 
Old 01 March 2017, 12:51   #17
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Why do you think the colors are wrong. The Amiga colors match the game better than the arcade. That blue on the arcade looks like it's late night for example.
The CPC colors are not "chosen", they are 3bit RGB values.
0,1,2 so..Possible combinations 3*3*3=27.
PS that palette was carefully chosen to convert the arcade data to a single 16 color palette so if you change the palette here and there with random colors without planning it will break the graphics.

Last edited by nobody; 01 March 2017 at 12:56.
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Old 01 March 2017, 18:24   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vollldo View Post
Ok guys, just use the original terrible palette.
Not "terrible". You just prefer a different approach.

Personally I agree with everyone else, that your contrasted-down colors have no place in an arcade game, and the saturated look this game has plays very well with the cutesy mood of the game in general.
Your version looks like "Rainbow Islands in Nordic Winter Depression Times"
I also never liked the arcade colors, preferred the Amiga version.

And most importantly: stop insulting people that disagree with you.
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Old 02 March 2017, 00:23   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vollldo View Post
Thanks to earok's tutorial i'm patching the Rainbow Islands too vivid palette. Island 1 WIP screenshots below. Another version matching the coin-op palette will be also released, the first version will keep a light blue sky for Island 1 (dark blue one in the coin-op).

Any opinion, suggestions or help are welcome.
Cool, I like your new palettes

I also agree that the Golden Axe palette is pretty nasty.
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Old 02 March 2017, 02:22   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vollldo View Post
Ok guys, just use the original terrible palette. Considering the amount of positive opinions that people left this night on my fb, completed with an intensive play test by 10 persons who confirmed the benefits of the new palette, it's my turn to be honest with you : either your daltonian, or blind, or simply locked in an Amiga fan like attitude that prevents you from seeing evidences.
Too much C64 graphics watchin' maybe ? lol

Quote:
And Dennis, stop saying "n'importe quoi" about the Amiga palette : the Amiga has 4096 colors and is not made to propose vivid palettes.
Yes the Amiga has a 4096 colors palette, but not the ST. Rainbow Islands graphics were done on an Atari ST machine, in 16 colors, and with Degas Elite in PC1 format.....

Quote:
I almost swallowed my toungue when I did read a such idioty seriously ! The CPC has 27 colors, they choosed a lot of vivid colors. On Amiga we have the choice to express various shades.
I agree, and i don't see where the problem stands on your side.

Quote:
Don't force me to write here a list of HUNDRED games you perfectly know that uses the exact contrary of a vivid palette and are considered as a graphical accomplishment by the whole Amiga community !!!!
RI palette type was limited by the range of colors used on the ST. I prefer the arcade palette brightness (independantly of the amount of colors).

That's why your idea is fine to me.

Quote:
Oh man, did i whisper... Speedball 2 on OCS for example ? Ups sorry the words came out of my mouth lol.
Speedball 2 is an Atari ST port on the Amiga.

Quote:
My turn to be honest by taking a revealing example : why do you think they didn't choosed a pure yellow in the world 1 level 1 coin-op version ? To make the yellow items (the lemon in the right at the very beginning says everything lol) be clearly detachable of the bricks !
You're right.

Quote:
On Amiga they used 16 colors only : they did the bad choice to choose a pure yellow to draw yellow items AND the bricks.
The main difference, is that the Amiga can choose 16 or 32 colors in a big palette of 4096 colors, while the ST can choose only 16 colors out of 512.

512 only !! And RI is an ST port, code wise, and graphic wise.

Quote:
Result is that the bricks dominate and make the yellow items totally lost in a yellow sea (the exact contrary of BrenMxGuire wrote above, the sprites are very difficult to see with the original palette). I choosed the best compromise since the yellow color is shared by fruits and bricks : still a yellow (lemons aren't red) but softer one not to be agressed by the predominance of the bricks ! Adding less agressive sky and all the rest completes the task. On an artistic and also readability point of view the game plays 10 times better.
You did basically what graftgold should have done : making the graphics and colors on the Amiga for the Amiga, instead of ST graphics for the Amiga.

Quote:
Look at me into my eyes and dare to write that they would have drawn the bricks in pure yellow if they would have choosed a 32 colors mode. They would have choosen the same tone than the coin-op to make item be separated, that's an evidence and not my opinion. Sorry but bad faith fan boy attitude here hey.
Wow ohoho ! calm down a bit pal. If you understand what is the deal with the yellow color you talk about, then you must understand that's because the graphics were made on an Atari ST, and then transcoded on the Amiga.

You have a greater choice if you have to pick 16 colors on the Amiga, than on the ST.

There's no fan boy attitude at all, just a technical aspect you missed.

Anyway, i like what you did with the palette, it's more adequate
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