09 October 2018, 18:11 | #141 |
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There is not enough evidence for proving anything.
You can't prove Monkey Business was, but you can't prove it wasn't. It is all speculation at this point. Which is all in good fun... ;-) Unless someone finds some actual evidence and ruins this thread once and for all. ;-) |
09 October 2018, 23:33 | #142 |
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I don't know why the awesome Don Adan of Wanted Team is getting so much stick here :-) He's seen more hidden ASCII in obfuscated, self-modifying, mega-protected code than probably anyone else, in his amazing efforts to rip music from the pre-Soundtracker/SONIX/custom format early days (85-87) of the Amiga. Salute to you, sir!
Just to add to the conjecture (as I'm sure, due to the many variables, we'll never definitively know what the first "proper" Amiga game was) when I set up the Lazarus website back in 1997 (anyone ancient here??) as an effort to gather long-lost Amiga software for the new generation of UAE users, we were rather proud of the fact we'd unearthed Mind Walker, widely confirmed as "the first commercially-released game for the Amiga". However, respected video game journalist Stuart Campbell emailed us to correct that assertion, saying he was looking forward to the imminent upload of Monkey Business, pointing out (back in 1997) that the elusive title was almost certainly the first Amiga release, knowing full well there was <1% chance of it ever surfacing. Make of that what you will, but 21 years later (ouch!) I'm inclined to agree with him. I hope he can now enjoy its appalling awfulness. As has been said several times, the concept of "release dates" was certainly something that existed in the mid 1980s both in North America and Europe, but was mostly based on getting ad copy to magazines way ahead of the product being available, either in-store or via mail order. US mags tended to have a longer lead-in time than here in the UK, also US mags regularly featured belated reviews of products that had already been in the wild for several months. UK mags tended to be more upfront, probably due to eager publishers sending review copies. I don't think this is worth arguing about anymore :-) Was Trip Hawkins overseeing development of One-on-One or Archon alongside/before/after Ron J Fortier was encouraged to hack together his terrible Mac game to run on other 68000-based machines. Here in the UK, Brataccas was similarly mashed together for the Atari ST in late 1985 based on a Mac game, later 1:1 ported to the Amiga. Lands of Havoc was ported from the Sinclair QL to become (one of) the first Atari ST release(s) in 1985. To my mind, the best that can come of this discovery is that someone codes a period intro that features: (1) a badly-looped poor-quality sample of Madonna Dress You Up (1985) (2) Topaz 9 scroller but based on Topaz 8 code so it cuts off the right-hand part of the font (3) an ugly stretched Topaz 12 logo with hideous copper colours (red/orange/pink) (4) a ridiculously bravado-laden team name, e.g. "HE-MAN CRACKINGS" or "AGAMEMNON GUYS" Anyone? |
10 October 2018, 00:00 | #143 | ||||
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As for Monkey Business being missing from the AW software buyers guide - that can probably be explained by the idiosyncrasies of how computer mags operated back in the day. The software guide was put together by Rob Mitchell, who as far as I can tell never wrote another article for Amiga World and wasn't part of their staff at any stage (i.e. he was probably a freelancer, and inexperienced at that, as he was just starting his career writing for American computer mags in 1985.....but forged a career as a hardware guy for various computer mags thereafter). Since he wasn't part of the AW staff, I doubt he would've been acutely aware of the day-to-day happenings there with stuff being sent in for review. These are the sort of vagaries of computer mags from back in the day that you have to be aware of, especially when you utilise them in any sort of fact-finding mission. Looking at the software buyers guide itself in the May/Apr '86 issue of AW, it's clear that it was compiled before the start of 1986 and maybe even 1-2 months before the end of 1985 (certainly some of the 30 games in the table at the end of the guide were listed for release in Jan '86 or later). The guide also reads like it was written over an extended period of time (a few weeks or more) and was designed to give readers a cross-section of what software they can expect to see in months to come (rather than what was available to use at the minute), so the table at the end probably wasn't meant to be taken as gospel. As it turns out, the following issue proved that point - 2 out of 5 games reviewed (Borrowed Time, Monkey Business) and the only 2 games announced as being available for purchase (Racter, Brataccas) in the news section were nowhere to be seen in the previous issue's software buyers guide. Quote:
There are a whole bunch of reasons why they might not have reviewed games at all until the May/June '86 issue. Some of them have to do with how distinctly different American computer mags were in their approach and operation compared to the UK/Euro mags. An example of this is Desiv's comment about AW perhaps not wanting to get off on a bad foot by reviewing a poor PD-style offering like Monkey Business on its own first-up, and it makes good sense. It would've been bad business for a new mag dedicated to a new computer platform in terms of trying to grow their readership, not to mention a bad advertisement for the new A1000 that might've dissuaded readers who hadn't bought one yet from actually parting with their cash. Quote:
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Last edited by DrBong; 10 October 2018 at 01:57. Reason: Fixed sentences + typos! |
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10 October 2018, 00:00 | #144 | ||
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I reckon you should copy Monkey Business on an old skool floppy and send it to Stuart Campbell gift-wrapped for Christmas. Make sure you don't put a return address on it, though......you probably won't want him flinging the thing back at ya! Besides, it'll be well-deserved payback for all the stick he gave Team 17 in game reviews!!! Last edited by DrBong; 10 October 2018 at 00:24. Reason: Fixed sentence! |
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10 October 2018, 00:13 | #145 | |
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10 October 2018, 01:14 | #146 | |
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As for Stuart Campbell, I remember reading his various rants on his AP2 website after Amiga Power packed it in. Not too bloody surprising that he's preserved it for posterity! https://theweekly.co.uk/ap2/dissent/vendetta.html |
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10 October 2018, 01:49 | #147 |
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World Premiere of Amiga was 23 VII 1985 year. Then over 4 months before Monkey Business was released. On movie Amiga was presented as professional computer better than IBM, then no games was presented, only some util programs, f.e. TextCraft and Pro Paint (Deluxe Paint ?):
[ Show youtube player ] Im sure that EA games was first Amiga games, I suspect One on One, Archon I or Seven Cities of Gold. Anyway because USA is basketball country, then One on One is the best game to sold as first. |
10 October 2018, 02:00 | #148 |
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@Don_Adan
How much money would you like to bet that an EA game as opposed to Monkey Business or a text/graphics adventure type game (e.g. Wishbringer, Hacker, Mindshadow) made it out first on the Amiga??!! |
10 October 2018, 03:14 | #149 | |
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[ Show youtube player ] [ Show youtube player ] [ Show youtube player ] [ Show youtube player ] Last edited by Don_Adan; 10 October 2018 at 03:59. |
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10 October 2018, 03:43 | #150 |
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7 Amiga games from 1985 year, 3 from EA:
[ Show youtube player ] |
10 October 2018, 03:48 | #151 | |
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You say that, but technically Monkey Business "could be" the first Amiga game. It might not be, but it could be. We don't have anything that proves that it couldn't be. So perhaps you are just saying that you are personally convinced it isn't the first game. Which is fine. I'm not convinced it is either. Although it could be. ;-) I'd still much prefer it be Mindwalker.. I love that game. ;-) Or one of the EA games, as I own a bunch of those.. Arctic Fox, Seven Cities of Gold, etc. It would be nice if I actually owned the first game... ;-) |
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10 October 2018, 04:11 | #152 |
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Why not Hex f.e?
If this commercial game, of course. [ Show youtube player ] http://hol.abime.net/3385 Hol seems to be have wrong date. Same quality like Monster Business. |
10 October 2018, 05:15 | #153 | ||||||
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Anyway, at least you're finally doing some research of your own on this topic! BTW, you keep calling Monkey Business.....Monster Bussiness. We know what you mean, but you probably should get the name right from hereout. Quote:
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As you probably know - and correct me if I'm wrong - mail-order software companies in the U.S. didn't need to advertise first in computer mags to gain exposure for their new games (or even send them for review to magazines, for that matter). Coders could simply gain exposure for their new games by demonstrating them at weekly user group meetings (which lotsa coders and software buyers alike attended enthusiastically in the pre-internet era) or at computer stores, or by uploading game demos to university servers or online software services (e.g. CompuServe) that were hugely popular among American C64/PC/Mac modem users in the 1980s. From what I understand, American user groups were an absolute hotbed for new software products in the 1970s/80s, not to mention software piracy. Richard Garriot's Ultima series certainly started out by gaining a huge cult following in this manner, and Bill Gates' first commercial release of Altair Basic was widely pirated at American user group meetings in the mid-1970s - so much so, that he felt compelled to (in)famously write an open letter to U.S. computer hobbyists condemning their user group practices on that front (see HERE). Quote:
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Whoever specified 1987 as the year of release (in the early days of HOL) based it on the year in the filename of the TOSEC release. Unfortunately, all these years later TOSEC is still riddled with incorrect years of release being specified in the filenames of lots of software across the many platforms it caters for. Last edited by DrBong; 10 October 2018 at 05:35. Reason: Fixed lotsa sentences! |
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10 October 2018, 05:31 | #154 | |
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10 October 2018, 05:47 | #155 |
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Tell me one thing, how do you buy Monkey Business game (Amiga version) in 1985 year, if dont know that this game exist (Amiga version)? After review in Amiga World magazine this game can be sold, not before. Then release date for this game is 1986 year, not 1985 year. Release and creation date can be different, but if for you release date is at first place, then Monkey Business is from 1986 year, if creation date then from 1985 year. Minimum 3 EA games are from 1985 years too.
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10 October 2018, 09:08 | #156 | |
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[...] - "Yeah, such a great thing !..." [...] |
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10 October 2018, 14:21 | #157 |
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I found something like this:
"I purchased the first Amiga sold in Virginia -- Oct. 1985. The dealer had one game on hand - EA's Software Golden Oldies, and I bought it. I ordered a few games early, and the first one to arrive was Hacker (or was it Hacker II?) by Activision. The second was Midshadow from Interplay. Then came Wishbringer from Infocom. That was pretty close to super early release sequence. I had seen a demo of Sublogic Jet at the dealer's, but never got it for the A1000. Oddly, I sold the Amiga in March or so of 1986 and went back to ... the Apple II line..." I never heard about Software Golden Oldies, seems to be from 1986 year or can exist more/different version. |
10 October 2018, 15:34 | #158 |
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https://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga...tware-classics
Should be this one: Golden Oldies - Volume 1 v2.4 (1986)(Software Country) The date of the files is the 07.01.1986, no crack. So he couldn't have bought it (the Amiga version, others were released earlier as it seems) in October 1985. Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 10 October 2018 at 15:42. |
10 October 2018, 15:51 | #159 | |
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10 October 2018, 16:52 | #160 | |
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There were lots of magazines. Word of mouth. (Especially in the bay area for the Amiga.) Exhibition/vendor shows. BBSs (Old Skool Internet) ;-) Local computer stores would frequently have product that was never in an Ad or reviewed. |
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