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Old 13 November 2018, 03:31   #1
bitter
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Indivision AGA MK2cr and animation

I've had mine for a little bit now, and while initially I was excited to see the Workbench on a clear LCD, now that I've had it for a bit, few things are starting to annoy me, and the more I play with the config tool, the more frustrating the whole experience is becoming...

Using NTSC Hi-Res Laced, the static picture is perfect. However, if scrolling in Shell, or moving mouse pointer, etc., there's tearing. Same on PAL Laced. On the other hand, Non-Laced modes look much better. I'm not sure what I can do to make it better... I tried both 60Hz and 75Hz modes (1280x1024), but I don't see much difference. Looks the same on two LCDs - Dell 2001FP and Samsung 712N.

Any suggestions? I know I can't make it as good as a CRT, but I was hoping for something a little better... Funny thing is, if I use XTREME 640x480 mode, for example, the animation looks as good as Non-laced modes, but mouse pointer is too small, and the mouse is too slow, so I know there has to be a way...
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Old 13 November 2018, 12:32   #2
Marle
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I might be wrong, but I seem to recall this was a problem with most flicker fixers back in the day, although I don't recall it being so bad on my Amiga 3000 through the 31KHz Amber driven port that I had back then too.

I think this is just an artefact of de-interlacing unfortunately
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Old 13 November 2018, 14:04   #3
Daedalus
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Yep, there's not a lot that can be done about interlaced screenmode tearing like that. Internally, the two alternating fields of the display are fed one after another to the display. While a flicker fixer doubles each line and builds up a single, progressive frame from all the data, it simply cannot account for any movement that happens in between frames, so half the display lines will always be half a full frame behind the other lines when it comes to movement.

The solution is to use non-interlaced modes. The Indivision does support several of these modes (as does the Amiga itself for system-friendly software), but they result in a much higher demand on the video throughput of the machine - after all, ultimately it's the Amiga itself that's generating all the pixels to display on the screen.

I don't think the slower video throughput is the cause of your mouse issues though. The Amiga's mouse position is normally based on low resolution pixels (320 x 200/256). Doubling the resolution in this way probably forces it to use high resolution pixels. For the size of the pointer, have a look at Pointer prefs. If it's still set to low resolution, setting it to high resolution might allow you to draw a much larger pointer. And if the speed and acceleration are already maxed out in Input prefs, there are other tools that can be used to adjust the mouse speed. I remember years ago finding one on Aminet that I used when I still had an original mouse and a 1600x1200 screen. It took more than the width of my mousemat to cross the screen, but the tool I used solved the issue. I can't remember the name of it now since I've used a higher resolution mouse for many years...
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Old 13 November 2018, 19:51   #4
bitter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus View Post
Yep, there's not a lot that can be done about interlaced screenmode tearing like that. Internally, the two alternating fields of the display are fed one after another to the display. While a flicker fixer doubles each line and builds up a single, progressive frame from all the data, it simply cannot account for any movement that happens in between frames, so half the display lines will always be half a full frame behind the other lines when it comes to movement.

The solution is to use non-interlaced modes. The Indivision does support several of these modes (as does the Amiga itself for system-friendly software), but they result in a much higher demand on the video throughput of the machine - after all, ultimately it's the Amiga itself that's generating all the pixels to display on the screen.

I don't think the slower video throughput is the cause of your mouse issues though. The Amiga's mouse position is normally based on low resolution pixels (320 x 200/256). Doubling the resolution in this way probably forces it to use high resolution pixels. For the size of the pointer, have a look at Pointer prefs. If it's still set to low resolution, setting it to high resolution might allow you to draw a much larger pointer. And if the speed and acceleration are already maxed out in Input prefs, there are other tools that can be used to adjust the mouse speed. I remember years ago finding one on Aminet that I used when I still had an original mouse and a 1600x1200 screen. It took more than the width of my mousemat to cross the screen, but the tool I used solved the issue. I can't remember the name of it now since I've used a higher resolution mouse for many years...
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense as far as interlaced screen shortcomings. I'm not really looking to stress out the AGA with very high-resolution screens, just want something VGA sized for WB and apps.

Any modes/drivers that you would recommend to keep Lisa/Indivision AGA as cool as possible at 640x400-ish? I was comparing pixel clocks from Indi, but I'm not sure that's the best way to do that...

The mouse was only an issue with XTREME driver, all other modes I tried were fine btw.
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Old 03 December 2018, 08:08   #5
AmigaHope
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One other option is to artificially add flicker back in by adding scanlines to alternating fields (in effect simulating interlacing on the non-interlaced output). It brings the headaches of flicker back but it does fix the tearing.

I don't know if the Indivision supports such a mode though.
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