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Old 07 May 2018, 20:25   #1
bernd roesch
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Sound and other issues

I test with I5 8600k CPU 16 GB ram and notice portaudio sound for about 5-6 sec ok, then 1-2 sec crackle, 5-6 sec ok, then 1-2 sec crackle. windows is really bad. I notice same problem when use dsound in reaper when set 2 buffer 512 bytes. (is 23 ms latency at 44.1). but when set 8 buffers 128 bytes are too 23 ms and work much much better. not perfect every 5 minutes or so come crackle with soundblaster z.

I try to test portaudio with WDM-ks on win 10 64 1803, but none of my sound devices work. i have realtec, soundblaster z and the microsoft USB driver for Behringer UMC22 USB sound. the UMC 22 have with reaper dsound and 8*128 bytes buffer no sounddrop as the sb z sometimes. so its best stable sound solution. only problem this have, when no sound is output then can hear digital buzz noise.

dsound in winuae work much better as wasapi with i5 8600K. my old i5 760 was better in wasapi. but all in all can say, latency is only slightly better on new as on old. I did not know how this work with the buffers in winuae. I guess winuae use same buffer size and increase only buffer num. but this give with many buffers very long latency

maybe PCIe is bad for realtime sound. I have a gforce 1030 gfx card, but i remove this and i get better results and faster p96 speed with the onboard graphic. gfx mem programs show that the onboard graphic allow read access of 8 GB. every GFX card i own and older PCIe board allow only 65 megabyte/sec read.

I did not know if there is a option or draw mode in winuae that the gfx mem mirroring and copying because of slow read have disable. because onbard graphic is so fast in read and write. to see how fast your gfx card is, you can see at https://www.3delite.hu/Object%20Pasc...Benchmark.html
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Old 07 May 2018, 21:06   #2
Toni Wilen
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Moved because this isn't really portaudio related. Except that tiny bit..

Second: not enough information. "work better" means nothing. Logs required so that I know your full hardware specs.

Sound buffer sizes are not comparable between different driver modes. Especially WASAPI supports very tiny buffers which make normal buffers look larger than normal.

Quote:
I did not know if there is a option or draw mode in winuae that the gfx mem mirroring and copying because of slow read have disable
WinUAE never reads from video RAM (all modes). RTG mode writes are also never direct. Only modified parts of visible screen are copied to VRAM once per frame.

Unless you use directdraw but then it is 100% your problem
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Old 08 May 2018, 09:45   #3
bernd roesch
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attached are log. i test wdm ks realtec portaudio and toccata. I can use in portaudio the offical ASIO driver from soundblaster z, but here it crackle always every sec or so. the asio have a option setting to set latency, but crackle happen always even if i set to 40 ms

another problem i notice when change sound output in winuae prefs. after change the output device i need go to amiga program and reselect ahi driver
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Old 08 May 2018, 10:07   #4
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernd roesch View Post
attached are log. i test wdm ks realtec portaudio and toccata. I can use in portaudio the offical ASIO driver from soundblaster z, but here it crackle always every sec or so. the asio have a option setting to set latency, but crackle happen always even if i set to 40 ms

another problem i notice when change sound output in winuae prefs. after change the output device i need go to amiga program and reselect ahi driver
UAE AHI design sucks, sorry. It simply can't work very well without total rewrite. (It also always uses DirectSound)

EDIT: Or did you mean AHI via some emulated sound card? (This is why very detailed information is needed, there are lots of options). Also if you use betas, you must always use latest version and if you notice something, always check if last official version has same issue.

EDIT2: Also try windowed mode and D3D11 fullscreen because D3D9 fullscreen may not be actual fullscreen anymore (Windows can do "adjustments" behind programs back. Ticking "Disable fullscreen optimizations" may or may not help)

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 08 May 2018 at 10:25.
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Old 08 May 2018, 14:27   #5
bernd roesch
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I use toccata soundcard emulation. can see in logs. its not easy to test and i maybe need test more. Or to ask diffrent. can somebody confirm, did soundcard realtec or microsoft USB or soundblaster z work on newest winuae with toccata and wdm ks mode in portaudio and buffer 1 or 2 perfect ?.

a new test let winuae not freeze but no sound is hear. log output show this. Wy V is not more near 60 hz ?. My old CPU too have such low hz. also because of rounding sound freq differ to rtg freq

NTSC mode dblscan V=59.3576Hz H=31113.1133Hz (114x525+1) IDX=-1 (<?>) D=0 RTG=1/1

57-108 [23779 000-000]: PASOUND: CH=2,FREQ=44100 ([Windows WDM-KS] Speakers (Sound Blaster Speakers)) 'Speakers (Sound Blaster Speakers)' buffer 512/512 (pull)
57-121 [23779 000-000]: SNDRATE 526.0*114.0*59.357559=3559316.680115
57-147 [23781 114-035]: pull overflow! 4096 2048 4096
57-366 [23794 103-012]: GetDiskFreeSpaceEx('D:\') failed err=3
2018-05-08 12:13:07
07-339 [24386 112-007]: GetDiskFreeSpaceEx('D:\') failed err=3
08-769 [24470 114-471]: pull overflow! 4096 2048 4096
12-428 [24688 110-044]: TOCCATA stop
12-697 [24704 110-011]: TOCCATA start Play freq=44100 bits=16 channels=2

dsound work better, but have much more cpu load on amiga side.

I notice now that to get better sound with 8600k CPU cpu idle need full left. even only 1 step to right give dropouts with toccata on wasapi. my old 760 CPU work ok with toccata and cpu idle 3 steps from left away ok.

the old winuae uaeahi driver work ok with cpu idle 3 steps to right in 8600K cpu too. but it have random crackle sometimes. after 20 sec sometimes after some minutes. seem problem is diffrent timers.
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Old 08 May 2018, 18:42   #6
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernd roesch View Post
I use toccata soundcard emulation. can see in logs. its not easy to test and i maybe need test more. Or to ask diffrent. can somebody confirm, did soundcard realtec or microsoft USB or soundblaster z work on newest winuae with toccata and wdm ks mode in portaudio and buffer 1 or 2 perfect ?.
Why portaudio? WDM-KS is old API, useful only under Windows XP. WASAPI is lowest level API today (Exclusive is direct to hardware buffers, bypasses all Windows mixers).

IMHO portaudio is only useful if you want to use ASIO with card that has good ASIO implementation.

Quote:
a new test let winuae not freeze but no sound is hear. log output show this. Wy V is not more near 60 hz ?. My old CPU too have such low hz. also because of rounding sound freq differ to rtg freq
It is Paula audio only log message. RTG does not affect it.

PCI audio card should be best option (due to DMA), but I am not sure if there are m68k drivers because no real PCI bridges support full PCI DMA..

(I really should finish "uaesnd" and create AHI driver..)
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Old 08 May 2018, 20:33   #7
bernd roesch
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I have soundblaster z ASIO driver.(so need no asioforall, but asio for all have same problems). it do often crackles on winuae. i can do a video so you can hear.so i try to test portaudio and WDM-KS. In general WDM-ks work perfect with 5 ms on win 10 64 . this can see with the audioreater program. it do just take the data from a audiocard input to another audio card output. see screenshot. there is a version of same program for MME. the buffer fill status bar jump alot. 50 ms is mimimum for mme version.

WDM-ks have no problem, question is wy it not work with port audio.
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Old 08 May 2018, 20:51   #8
Toni Wilen
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How should I know? I don't know or care how portaudio works internally. (also make sure not to use my ancient build). EDIT: I can build new version if needed.

Start with basics, unexpanded A500 or A1200 and test some games or demos and compare sound. If there are still differences: it most likely is not winuae problem.

Note that WASAPI is only really supported option. DirectSound is more or less unsupported now, only kept for XP compatibility reasons.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 08 May 2018 at 20:56.
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Old 08 May 2018, 22:29   #9
bernd roesch
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I test with the a500 default config James Pond and portaudio soundblaster z asio. it work ok with buffer 5.but use buffer 5 with ahi JIT and fastest possible CPU idle full left, give sometimes random crackle and for realtime keyboard play latency should be 2*lower. what latency setting 5 have ?. I guess its around 40-50 ms. maybe more but smaller buffers help to get lower latency ?. the soundblaster z asio work ok with 2 ms latency in music software.
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Old 09 May 2018, 20:12   #10
Toni Wilen
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Buffer size is in log file (in bytes). PortAudio ASIO with SB Z does not work very well here (need large buffer) but WDM-KS seems to work fine with small buffers.

JIT behavior (JIT code can run very long) will require higher buffers. I don't think there is any easy fixes.

btw, http://www.winuae.net/files/stuff/portaudio.zip is updated with latest dev version.
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