Amiga 3000 Questions

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by bubbob42

The 3000@16 MHz is considered to be a collectors item nowadays.

Really? Why?

[Jope]

Originally Posted by bubbob42

@Jope: cutting the faceplate of that model to fit something as unnecessary as a 2nd floppy? Are you serious?

Um, you're supposed to cut the floppy drive's metal cover. You do not cut the A3000 front panel. This cutting to the FLOPPY DRIVE needs to be done if you install an A2000 or A4000 tall chinon into an A3000, else the computer's top case will not fit in its place, because the A3000's front panel will hit the floppy drive if you do not cut the drive case.

The A500 and A3000 tall Chinons share a similar casing, thus both will fit the A3000 without any modifications to either the A3000's front panel or the floppy drive's case. The A2000 and A4000 tall chinons again share a similar casing amongst themselves, but they are not A1000/A1010/A1011/A500/A3000 compatible due to their different shape.

Calm down and read more carefully next time.

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

Really? Why?

They really didn't sell as many 16MHz ones as they did 25MHz ones. The whole 16MHz model was a bit of an afterthought, they slowed the machine down after someone decided that there needs to be an entry level model as well. As a result the 16MHz model is a bit more problematic with some expansions. The system was really designed to be a 25MHz system, so some timings are more marginal with a 16MHz motherboard clock.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by Jope

Um, you're supposed to cut the floppy drive's metal cover. You do not cut the A3000 front panel.

Calm down and read more carefully next time.



They really didn't sell as many 16MHz ones as they did 25MHz ones. The whole 16MHz model was a bit of an afterthought, they slowed the machine down after someone decided that there needs to be an entry level model as well. As a result the 16MHz model is a bit more problematic with some expansions. The system was really designed to be a 25MHz system, so some timings are more marginal with a 16MHz motherboard clock.

Well he thinks it's a 16MHz model because he doesn't see a processor card in there (a A3640). Could it really be a 25Mhz model? Or did all the 25Mhz models have A3640 CPU cards?

[brett71]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

Well he thinks it's a 16MHz model because he doesn't see a processor card in there (a A3640). Could it really be a 25Mhz model? Or did all the 25Mhz models have A3640 CPU cards?

No, the 25Mhz models were just a different CPU and clock generator, I think. I had a 25Mhz A3000 (a couple of them over the years, actually) and neither had a CPU card in them. It was just soldered down to the mainboard.

[Jope]

Yep.. The desktop A3000 was not shipped with an A3640 card and Commodore did not recommend to use it in the A3000 due to heat problems.

The only A3000 model shipped with an A3640 was the very rare A3000T/040

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by brett71

No, the 25Mhz models were just a different CPU and clock generator, I think. I had a 25Mhz A3000 (a couple of them over the years, actually) and neither had a CPU card in them. It was just soldered down to the mainboard.

Then it probably is the faster 25MHz. He was just guessing by looking.

[Tempest 2084]

Turns out it has 8MB of RAM.

This is the type of ZIP RAM that's in it, is this 80ns chips? Will the ones in that auction work? I think that might be 60ns (going by the number at the end of the chips)
http://vintagecomputer.ca/misc-pictures/ (scroll down to the pictures of the Amiga).

[Locutus]

80ns is fast enough. Using anything faster doesn't get you more speed.

[idrougge]

Hint: 60 ns is faster than 80 ns.

[Jope]

Good luck there, you had the bigger chips, so you can buy 16 chips to max it out. Your machine is also 25MHz.

8MB is already pretty ok for WHDLoad gaming.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by Locutus

80ns is fast enough. Using anything faster doesn't get you more speed.

Right, but I didn't know if you could mix speeds (60ns and 80ns) or if it would cause problems.

Originally Posted by Jope

Good luck there, you had the bigger chips, so you can buy 16 chips to max it out. Your machine is also 25MHz.

8MB is already pretty ok for WHDLoad gaming.

True, but maxing it out to 16MB is pretty cheap. What outside heavy graphical apps (like Video Toaster) would use all that memory?

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

True, but maxing it out to 16MB is pretty cheap. What outside heavy graphical apps (like Video Toaster) would use all that memory?

Apart from web browsers eating up RAM, the AmigaOS has a dynamic RAM: disk, which is very useful for unpacking stuff temporarily and so on. The more RAM the better.

And as said, WHDLoad slaves take up a lot more RAM than the game originally needed.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by Jope

And as said, WHDLoad slaves take up a lot more RAM than the game originally needed.

Do you know of any games that use more than 8MB of ram? I'm genuinely curious now.

Back to the disk drive question. As you can see in those pictures the button for the disk drive is taped on, but I don't have any experience with this type of drive. Does it look like the actual plastic is broken (in which case I can buy a new one) or that something on the drive itself is broken?

I know people said that you can use A2000 or A500 drives with a little hacking, but are the A3000 unique then or just the button?

Also, how much do you think this A3000 is worth? It has one disk drive, 8MB of fast ram, 2MB chip ram, and a 25Mhz 030. It looks to be in really nice shape overall and still has the second drive cover. It's an NTSC model. I was guessing around $600 given recent ebay auctions.

[brett71]

Just speaking for myself, a few years ago, I sold a really decked out A3000 (maxxed memory 16MB with a ZIP to SIMM adapter, Kick 3.1 ROMs, 25Mhz 030, updated Buster, replaced battery [same form factor but Lithium Ion instead of NiCad], SCSI-to-IDE adapter with a 4GB CF, an Indivision net card, Cybervision 64, U.S. keyboard, mouse, 14" LCD monitor, probably forgetting one or two other things) for $800 on eBay....

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

Do you know of any games that use more than 8MB of ram? I'm genuinely curious now.

Probably Monkey Island 2, Settlers and similar larger adventure games. Most two disk games don't require it. Unfortunately I haven't really investigated this - my AGA machines all have 128MB RAM, so there has always been plenty of RAM. Also my A3000 with its 16+8+2MB setup has been sufficient for the games I want to play.

Back to the disk drive question. As you can see in those pictures the button for the disk drive is taped on, but I don't have any experience with this type of drive. Does it look like the actual plastic is broken (in which case I can buy a new one) or that something on the drive itself is broken?

Someone just broke the pieces of plastic that the eject button mounts with, they probably didn't realise that you need to have a disk in the drive before you can slide the eject switch out to the right through the little notch in the metal cover sleeve.

I know people said that you can use A2000 or A500 drives with a little hacking, but are the A3000 unique then or just the button?

Well, look at your pic and then mine. The A3000 drive has a slightly different eject button mounting bracket, which can take both a wide A3000 button and a narrow A500 button. If you look at the picture I attached on the previous page, that drive has a smaller bracket that can only take a narrow eject button.

It's not that unique, but the combination of drive outer sleeve with notch and wide bracket for the wide eject button is only guaranteed to be found in the A3000. Some A500 drives will be able to take the A3000 eject button, but of course you can use a tape or glue trick too. :-)

Also most A500 chinons will not have an activity LED soldered in, but each one I've seen has provisions for one.

Also, how much do you think this A3000 is worth? It has one disk drive, 8MB of fast ram, 2MB chip ram, and a 25Mhz 030. It looks to be in really nice shape overall and still has the second drive cover. It's an NTSC model. I was guessing around $600 given recent ebay auctions.

I'm still stuck in the turn of the millennium for what is an acceptable price, so it's difficult for me to comment. I'll just say that prizes are crazy these days. :-)

[Tempest 2084]

Thanks for the answers. I'll probably upgrade the RAM to 16MB because why the heck not?

I'll also keep an eye out for a real spare 3000 disk drive since I really don't need a second one with WHDload gaming (it was more useful on my 2000 when I did disk based games). Sounds like I can order a replacement button and fix that if the tape doesn't work (http://www.shapeways.com/product/Z3R...e-eject-button)

Yeah A3000 and A4000 prices have really gone up lately. The odd thing is that 3000's seem to be more in demand than the 4000's (although 4000's still go for more). Personally I always thought the 4000's were kind of ugly (they look like a hobbyist DIY generic PC case), but unless you can get your hands on a 4000T they're the only big box AGA system.

[Tempest 2084]

Originally Posted by Jope

Good luck there, you had the bigger chips, so you can buy 16 chips to max it out..

Can you mix the RAM speeds? I thought that was a no-no. I found this on Amiga.org:

You can use 60 or 70 or 80. Just don't mix them in an A3000 or you'll have all sorts of mysterious errors. I used to get little glitches randomly on my screen because of a single 80 getting mixed in with a bank of 70ns ram. I recall taking about 2 days to track down what the deal was way back when. (We all blamed Amber, and replaced it, but that didn't solve the problem, finally noticing that one different zip and changing it solved it after a whole lot of cursing and fist shaking.) :-)

Stick with all 70ns (they're the most common next to 80ns that I can find).

Although, you might be able to mix 80's and 70's if you pair them in different banks. From what I recall you want to fill bank 0 first, then 1 then 2 then 3. If you are missing a chip in bank 2 you won't see the ram in bank 3 (unless I recall incorrectly). The 3000 (and 3000T) motherboard needs to have the RAM populated bank at a time (you can't just shove ram in the bottom 8 sockets and expect to see it all or be able to use it all).

Would these 80ns chips work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOSHIBA-TC51...EAAOxy7odRz-8G

[bubbob42]

Originally Posted by Jope

Um, you're supposed to cut the floppy drive's metal cover. You do not cut the A3000 front panel.

Calm down and read more carefully next time.

Sorry, just reading "case" got my alarm bells ringing. I feel relieved now.

[Jope]

Originally Posted by bubbob42

Sorry, just reading "case" got my alarm bells ringing. I feel relieved now.

No worries. I got rather wound up too, but all is good. :-)

[Jope]

Originally Posted by Tempest 2084

Can you mix the RAM speeds? I thought that was a no-no. I found this on Amiga.org:

I'd say if you have the same type of RAM in each bank and have a slower bank as bank 0, it should be ok.

Of course if you want to be 100% sure, then you'd buy the exact same chips for each bank. :-)

Would these 80ns chips work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOSHIBA-TC51...EAAOxy7odRz-8G

They should work.