Coming soon, C64 Forever by Cloanto!

[Marcuz]

Originally Posted by discomeats

the "royal we" it seems, is misunderstood, as is poor quality jokes...

vote to close company? not what I typed, not "so to speak", but actually *not* what I typed

and as for damaging a company by not buying their product and making note of other choices available.. no. that's an illogical assertion, selling a product that a market in the main does not require is a company's own fault, it's most absolutely not any non-consumers, any damage that results is down to the company's poor marketing strategy of dipping their toes into a saturated area that has competition that is free. Now they may have a good marketing angle and it could well work in their case, but in my opinion it seems somewhat redundant.

Are you going to say to everyone who doesn't care for this project "nobody is forcing you to buy it" ?

I remember people saying that when ridiculously overpriced "new amiga" boards came out...

my answer was not intended only to your post, but in general.

i advocate different opinions, just i don't like to see one particular opinion to overwhelm all the others with that thrashy attitude i did read above because they look unpopoular.

i was not aiming at your post, just taking it as a clue to explain my point of view.

i would not buy that stuff, but i do not want to see Cloanto bankrupt because i don't like their product.

[discomeats]

If a reasoned statement is thrashy then there's no point me commenting further.

edit to add: btw, I did at no point say I *wanted* to see cloanto bankrupt, I didn't type that, I didn't imply that. This thread has already passed innapropriate.

[PWLM]

Originally Posted by Rixa

I don't claim to know what C64 Forever is all about and I don't like Cloanto much, but not for the same reasons as all the hate on this board.

That being said I'm not sure I understand the point above. C64 and the other platforms emulated by VICE and even the various disk drives supported all have rom chips in them with system code. The code is widely - but probably improperly - available, and the upstream VICE packages even includes it. The rom files are removed in things like Debian, though, and the emulator won't work without them.

Meanwhile, I did once ask Cloanto if they have license to distribute the various games they ship and they answered that apart from the possible exception of the cracker intros themselves they do. Is there something blatantly obvious in there that they're shipping improperly in spite of what they say?

Fair call. My point being that WinUAE for example, is distyributed WITHOUT ROMs because of copyright etc etc, but CCS64/WinVICE is distributed holus bolus, so there may be assumptions that if you can download a fully functional piece of software for free from so many places on the 'net, it is OK to do so and why would anyone bother paying for it? I agree with many replies, simple laziness and ignorance. Amiga Forever was a good idea when it began because at that point it was not easy to collect Amiga stuff from the 'net, but it is now and the same applies to C64.

[paranoid]

Why is there a knee-jerk assumption that they're distributing this illegally? Do we know for sure that there isn't an agreement between Cloanto and the makers of VICE? If the makers of VICE are getting a little kickback for their work, I say more power to them.

(Having said that, I seem to be using CCS64, for reasons mostly unknown to me. I just know it works.)

[gklinger]

Originally Posted by paranoid

Do we know for sure that there isn't an agreement between Cloanto and the makers of VICE?

VICE is distributed under the GPL so Cloanto can do whatever they like provided they don't violate that license. The 64's kernal, however, is not freely distributable and then there's the question of included software. Also, based on an email request from Cloanto themselves, I have good reason to believe they intend to include other copyright materials. (Sorry, I can't say more about that right now.)

[Amiga1992]

Originally Posted by gklinger

VICE is distributed under the GPL so Cloanto can do whatever they like provided they don't violate that license. The 64's kernal, however, is not freely distributable and then there's the question of included software. Also, based on an email request from Cloanto themselves, I have good reason to believe they intend to include other copyright materials. (Sorry, I can't say more about that right now.)

If the 64 Kernal and BASIC ROMs are not freely distributable how come VICE and other C64 emus come with it?

[Unknown_K]

I am still tripping over free real C64 equipment here, why bother with an EMU? Atleast Amiga gear is rare these days so I can see buying Amiga Forever.

[gklinger]

Originally Posted by Akira

If the 64 Kernal and BASIC ROMs are not freely distributable how come VICE and other C64 emus come with it?

Because nobody (read Tulip) has made a fuss (yet). I'm not trying to be a smart arse, that's the real reason.

Some Linux distributions don't include the ROM images in their VICE packages to avoid the potential legal quagmire. Debian is one example and if you look at the entry for VICE in their package database you'll see they address the issue directly. That's actually an improvement because there was a time where they shunned VICE completely.

[Amiga1992]

Fair enough.
I don't think anyone will give a damn. It's almost the only emulator type I know of that has the ROMs in built. Other C64 emus have the ROMs too. maybe they have been released to public domain? Tulip only owns the COMMODORE BRAND, not the licenses over ANY of the hardware. I think Gateway bought that.

Problem is these Cloanto shitheads have included illegal software before and will do so again.

[Retro-Nerd]

Originally Posted by Akira

Fair enough.
I don't think anyone will give a damn. It's almost the only emulator type I know of that has the ROMs in built. Other C64 emus have the ROMs too. maybe they have been released to public domain? Tulip only owns the COMMODORE BRAND, not the licenses over ANY of the hardware. I think Gateway bought that.

Problem is these Cloanto shitheads have included illegal software before and will do so again.

They included 200 games, and a download option for 5000 other games. Probably grabbed from GB64 or another C64 package.

[gklinger]

Originally Posted by Akira

maybe they have been released to public domain?

I don't believe that to be the case. It is my understanding that Tulip owns the rights even though I'm not entirely clear on the line of succession. I'm sure I was told (by someone involved with the development) that rights for the 64's kernal etc. had to be licensed from Tulip for use in the C64DTV.

[Amiga1992]

I'm certainly not sure, last I know, Tulip bought the Commodore brand, and Gateway bought the Amiga brand PLUS all of Commodore's IPs, which I also think were about to expire.

[Dexther]

Frankly I do not see the reason to buy this compilation if I Possidi GameBase 64
It is true that the above and a little cumbersome to use, but not much.
Now what we offer with this product? a DVD on how they were assembled the C64?

[Rixa]

Originally Posted by Akira

Problem is these Cloanto shitheads have included illegal software before and will do so again.

Is this a fact and how do you know it? Which software that they ship do you know them not to have a license to distribute?

[cosmicfrog]

it gets me that most of the views here are from the point of view of people who already have the emulator and the software that goes with it and so i presume you are not the intended audience for such a compilation.

also ppl tend to be lazy and if they can get an all in 1 solution they will

[mcb]

We are still working on the dehydrated water thingy, in the meantime if you want the best version of VICE for Windows you can get it here:

http://www.c64forever.com/sourcecode/

Improvements are listed in the change log (root of source code archive).

[ChucklesII]

First, I've been on the Lemon Amiga site for a while and I joined here as a more complete(?) easier way to find info on Commodore stuff--such as Amiga Gamebase, for one thing.
But I digress--
Yes, I got an email the other day on the Cloanto C64 frontend, and no, I haven't bought it--at least not yet.
The thing I like about the Amiga Forever is that everything's in one package: it became easy to install Amikit, for one thing.
As far as the working part of the emulator, I don't care that much for the AmigaForever. The fontend I like the mostest, is Lemon's LemonAid; unfortunately, it's no longer supported--too bad.
Well then.
Nice to get that off my chest.
Hm!