Installing PFS3 on 8.5GB SCSI HD

lopos2000 · 30 August 2006, 23:40

How do I install PFS3 on a large SCSI HD?
I installed the software, updated it and followed the instructions which are on the CD.
I have 5 partition, all are 1.5GB. I formated (full format)the first 2 partion using pfsformat but when I tried to format the third but I get the message that it can't format it due to it's over 4GB.

I can quick format all of my partition but then I can't use the tools which come with PFS3.
Does somebody know how to overcome this problem?
My system is as follow:
- A1200T
- Blizzard PPC +603 175/40/25
- OS 3.9 BB2
- 8.5GB SCSI HD
- 3GB IDE
- Mediator
- Voodoo3
Thanks

AMIGAZ · 30 August 2006, 23:46

Never full format PFS3 partitions (read the docs)
I've had problems with PFS3 too but not since I put PFS3 on my OS3.9 emergency floppy and used it straight away when partition my hd and installing OS3.9 from scratch
there is an update for pfs3 on Aminet which should solve some diskdoctor troubles

lopos2000 · 31 August 2006, 08:13

I updated PFS3 to 18.5. What the point of having a Disktool which one can use only for partitions under 4GB?

thomas · 31 August 2006, 08:31

Run Check4GB and quote its output here.

lopos2000 · 31 August 2006, 10:57

@thomas
Here my results using Check 4GB

Code:

Name     Volume       Size Device       Unit Version  DosType  Version   Big Check
CD       PFS3         480M blizzppc        3 44.35    CD01     42.19      no ok
IDH0     Empty       1750M blizzppc        4 44.35    PDS3     18.5       no ok
IDH1     Work        1750M blizzppc        4 44.35    PDS3     18.5       no ok
IDH2     Gamez&Demos  1750M blizzppc        4 44.35    PDS3     18.5      yes * N T
IDH3     Test        1750M blizzppc        4 44.35    PDS3     18.5      yes * N T
IDH4     Backup      1743M blizzppc        4 44.35    PDS3     18.5      yes * N T
CC0                    20K carddisk        0 40.1     DOS1     45.9       no ok
DH3      OS3.1       1031M scsi            0 43.35    DOS3     45.13      no ok
DH4      CLWB1       1031M scsi            0 43.35    SFS0     2.3        no ok
DH5      CLWB2       1029M scsi            0 43.35    SFS0     2.3        no ok
DF0                   880K trackdisk       0 40.1     DOS0     45.9       no ok

thomas · 31 August 2006, 11:17

That's really strange, but obviously your SCSI driver does not accept SCSI commands to read from the HDD. Do you have the latest flash update installed ?

You should use the regular PFS3 instead of PFS3ds, then it will work.

Edit: of course you have the latest flash, the version number says so.

lopos2000 · 31 August 2006, 11:29

Thanks thomas. Yes I have the latest flash updates installed. The blizzppc.device is version 44.35.

lopos2000 · 31 August 2006, 12:48

@thomas
Ok, I changed from PDS/3 to PFS/3. Here is log from Check4GB:

Code:

Name     Volume       Size Device       Unit Version  DosType  Version   Big Check
CD       PFS3         480M blizzppc        3 44.35    CD01     42.19      no ok
IDH0     Empty       1750M blizzppc        4 44.35    PFS3     18.5       no ok
IDH1     Work        1750M blizzppc        4 44.35    PFS3     18.5       no ok
IDH2     Gamez&Demos  1750M blizzppc        4 44.35    PFS3     18.5      yes ok
IDH3     Test        1750M blizzppc        4 44.35    PFS3     18.5      yes ok
IDH4     Backup      1743M blizzppc        4 44.35    PFS3     18.5      yes ok
CC0                    20K carddisk        0 40.1     DOS1     45.9       no ok
DH3      OS3.1       1031M scsi            0 43.35    DOS3     45.13      no ok
DH4      CLWB1       1031M scsi            0 43.35    SFS0     2.3        no ok
DH5      CLWB2       1029M scsi            0 43.35    SFS0     2.3        no ok
DF0                   880K trackdisk       0 40.1     DOS0     45.9       no ok

thomas · 31 August 2006, 15:46

Looks good to me. Do you still get error messages ?

lopos2000 · 31 August 2006, 16:27

Yes, just tried it again. Still get the error message 'Full format is not possible'.

hexaae · 31 August 2006, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopos2000

How do I install PFS3 on a large SCSI HD?

Mmh, I thought SFS was newer, better and still being updated (isn't PFS3 abandoned?)

I personally suggest SFS

http://strohmayer.org/sfs/

lopos2000 · 31 August 2006, 20:12

Thanks for the comment but that doesn't help. I have PSF3 now and I want to find out how to install properly.

thomas · 01 September 2006, 09:12

I must admit, I never tried to full-format any HDD partition. Why should I ? It doesn't do more than produce hot air anyway.

Why don't you use quick-format and forget about it ?

lopos2000 · 01 September 2006, 09:19

I know it works with quick format. I tried it with a 5.1GB IDE hard drive using PSD3 and it works fine. So, why doesn't it work on a SCSI HD with blizzzppc.device. Do I need to patch it with TD64? Or, should I go back and use SFS ?

thomas · 01 September 2006, 09:52

Blizzppc.device already supports TD64, no patch needed. Using PFS3 on blizzppc is totally safe.

PFS3ds does not use TD64 but HD_SCSICMD and blizzppc.device does not support HD_SCSICMD, at least not for reading and writing data.

I don't see a reason why a SCSI driver should not accept SCSI commands, but it doesn't. Both PFS3 tools and Check4GB say so.

lopos2000 · 01 September 2006, 10:06

But, if I run pfsdoctor on my partition which are over the 4GB limit I get the following message 'PFSDoctor failed to access this disk above the 4GB boundary after attempting both direct SCSI and TD64. Aborting'
What it means that I can use PFSDoctor only for partition under the 4GB boundary and anything over that it's useless?

lopos2000 · 01 September 2006, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

Blizzppc.device already supports TD64, no patch needed. Using PFS3 on blizzppc is totally safe.

PFS3ds does not use TD64 but HD_SCSICMD and blizzppc.device does not support HD_SCSICMD, at least not for reading and writing data.

I don't see a reason why a SCSI driver should not accept SCSI commands, but it doesn't. Both PFS3 tools and Check4GB say so.

Where does it say that blizzppc.device supports TD64? Can you point me to some documentation's?

thomas · 01 September 2006, 12:46

Look at the result of your first run of Check4GB. The rows with the problematic partitions say in the "check" column: * N T. "*" means that the check was not ok, "N" means it supports NSD commands and "T" means that it supports TD64 commands. An additional "S" would have meant it supports HD_SCSICMD, too, but it doesn't (which I still find very irritating: a SCSI driver which does not allow SCSI commands to be used).

I don't know if it is in the documentation somewhere, but I know that Phase5 was one of the founders of the TD64 standard and all Phase5 SCSI drivers support TD64.

BTW, there is no TD64 patch. The only patch available is NSDPatch, which does not have anything to do with TD64 (except that it can use TD64 commands if they already are supported). And even if a patch existed, it would convert TD64 commands to SCSI commands which in turn are not supported by your device.

While I think about it, it could be that the error which happens when using SCSI commands is not because of SCSI commands are not supported but because the SCSI commands somehow fail. Are you sure your HDD is connected and jumpered correctly and that the SCSI bus is terminated correctly ?
Unfortunately neither Check4GB nor PFSDoctor say which error code was returned when attempting to use SCSI commands.

Another thought: did you check devs:nsdpatch.cfg ? Perhaps the line for blizzppc.device is not correct. It could be that NSDPatch patches blizzppc.device so that it rejects SCSI commands although they are supported.

lopos2000 · 01 September 2006, 12:52

Thanks thomas for the info. That's great. My SCSI HD is an IBM DNES-309170.
I'll check the jumpers. Any idea what jumpers I have to check?

thomas · 01 September 2006, 13:37

Usually the only jumpers are Term, TermPwr, and three or four jumpers for the SCSI ID. SCSI ID does not matter except that you must not use the same ID on different devices. Term should be off if you use terminators or if the drive is in the middle of the cable. If it is the last device on the cable, Term should be on.

TermPower should be supplied by exactly one device. I don't know if the BlizzardPPC supplies TermPower and if it is terminated. This should be described in the manual. If it is not terminated, you need a terminator or a terminated device on the other end of the cable, too. If it does not supply term power, you should set the TermPwr jumper on one (and only one) of the other devices.

IMHO you should first check NSDPatch.cfg. If there is a line with blizzppc.device, remove it. It is not needed for use with PFS3. (But it is needed for use with FFS.)

30 August 2006, 23:40	#1
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	Installing PFS3 on 8.5GB SCSI HD How do I install PFS3 on a large SCSI HD? I installed the software, updated it and followed the instructions which are on the CD. I have 5 partition, all are 1.5GB. I formated (full format)the first 2 partion using pfsformat but when I tried to format the third but I get the message that it can't format it due to it's over 4GB. I can quick format all of my partition but then I can't use the tools which come with PFS3. Does somebody know how to overcome this problem? My system is as follow: - A1200T - Blizzard PPC +603 175/40/25 - OS 3.9 BB2 - 8.5GB SCSI HD - 3GB IDE - Mediator - Voodoo3 Thanks

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30 August 2006, 23:46	#2
AMIGAZ Amiga-Mad Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sweden Age: 46 Posts: 1,286	Never full format PFS3 partitions (read the docs) I've had problems with PFS3 too but not since I put PFS3 on my OS3.9 emergency floppy and used it straight away when partition my hd and installing OS3.9 from scratch there is an update for pfs3 on Aminet which should solve some diskdoctor troubles

31 August 2006, 08:13	#3
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	I updated PFS3 to 18.5. What the point of having a Disktool which one can use only for partitions under 4GB?

31 August 2006, 08:31	#4
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	Run Check4GB and quote its output here.

31 August 2006, 11:17	#6
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	That's really strange, but obviously your SCSI driver does not accept SCSI commands to read from the HDD. Do you have the latest flash update installed ? You should use the regular PFS3 instead of PFS3ds, then it will work. Edit: of course you have the latest flash, the version number says so.

31 August 2006, 11:29	#7
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	Thanks thomas. Yes I have the latest flash updates installed. The blizzppc.device is version 44.35.

31 August 2006, 15:46	#9
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	Looks good to me. Do you still get error messages ?

31 August 2006, 16:27	#10
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	Yes, just tried it again. Still get the error message 'Full format is not possible'.

31 August 2006, 20:12	#12
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	Thanks for the comment but that doesn't help. I have PSF3 now and I want to find out how to install properly.

01 September 2006, 09:12	#13
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	I must admit, I never tried to full-format any HDD partition. Why should I ? It doesn't do more than produce hot air anyway. Why don't you use quick-format and forget about it ?

01 September 2006, 09:19	#14
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	I know it works with quick format. I tried it with a 5.1GB IDE hard drive using PSD3 and it works fine. So, why doesn't it work on a SCSI HD with blizzzppc.device. Do I need to patch it with TD64? Or, should I go back and use SFS ?

01 September 2006, 09:52	#15
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	Blizzppc.device already supports TD64, no patch needed. Using PFS3 on blizzppc is totally safe. PFS3ds does not use TD64 but HD_SCSICMD and blizzppc.device does not support HD_SCSICMD, at least not for reading and writing data. I don't see a reason why a SCSI driver should not accept SCSI commands, but it doesn't. Both PFS3 tools and Check4GB say so.

01 September 2006, 10:06	#16
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	But, if I run pfsdoctor on my partition which are over the 4GB limit I get the following message 'PFSDoctor failed to access this disk above the 4GB boundary after attempting both direct SCSI and TD64. Aborting' What it means that I can use PFSDoctor only for partition under the 4GB boundary and anything over that it's useless?

01 September 2006, 12:46	#18
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	Look at the result of your first run of Check4GB. The rows with the problematic partitions say in the "check" column: * N T. "*" means that the check was not ok, "N" means it supports NSD commands and "T" means that it supports TD64 commands. An additional "S" would have meant it supports HD_SCSICMD, too, but it doesn't (which I still find very irritating: a SCSI driver which does not allow SCSI commands to be used). I don't know if it is in the documentation somewhere, but I know that Phase5 was one of the founders of the TD64 standard and all Phase5 SCSI drivers support TD64. BTW, there is no TD64 patch. The only patch available is NSDPatch, which does not have anything to do with TD64 (except that it can use TD64 commands if they already are supported). And even if a patch existed, it would convert TD64 commands to SCSI commands which in turn are not supported by your device. While I think about it, it could be that the error which happens when using SCSI commands is not because of SCSI commands are not supported but because the SCSI commands somehow fail. Are you sure your HDD is connected and jumpered correctly and that the SCSI bus is terminated correctly ? Unfortunately neither Check4GB nor PFSDoctor say which error code was returned when attempting to use SCSI commands. Another thought: did you check devs:nsdpatch.cfg ? Perhaps the line for blizzppc.device is not correct. It could be that NSDPatch patches blizzppc.device so that it rejects SCSI commands although they are supported.

01 September 2006, 12:52	#19
lopos2000 Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cider is best In The West Posts: 1,238	Thanks thomas for the info. That's great. My SCSI HD is an IBM DNES-309170. I'll check the jumpers. Any idea what jumpers I have to check?

01 September 2006, 13:37	#20
thomas Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 6,985	Usually the only jumpers are Term, TermPwr, and three or four jumpers for the SCSI ID. SCSI ID does not matter except that you must not use the same ID on different devices. Term should be off if you use terminators or if the drive is in the middle of the cable. If it is the last device on the cable, Term should be on. TermPower should be supplied by exactly one device. I don't know if the BlizzardPPC supplies TermPower and if it is terminated. This should be described in the manual. If it is not terminated, you need a terminator or a terminated device on the other end of the cable, too. If it does not supply term power, you should set the TermPwr jumper on one (and only one) of the other devices. IMHO you should first check NSDPatch.cfg. If there is a line with blizzppc.device, remove it. It is not needed for use with PFS3. (But it is needed for use with FFS.)

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