SkillGrid - new AGA game in the works

[roondar]

I'm not offended
Simply wanted to give my perspective, that's all.

[saimo]

One day I woke up with the song The Man with the Gun by Press Play On Tape playing in my mind. Somehow, a mental connection was born: how cool would it have been to have a piece of that song as the music for SkillGrid's Music Mode? So, I spent a little time to cut/mix excerpts from the song and to add them to the game. And then I didn't stop there: also all the other music pieces were replaced with parts I extracted and adapted from the same song. This video shows the result - and how good the audio engine of the game is

[ Show youtube player ]

Important:
* this version of the game is not publicly available;
* the game has its own original soundtrack.

[klx300r]

just read the great article about SkillGrid in the latest Amiga Future and I fully agree with what the auther (Graham Humphrey) pleads all Amiga users with AGA systems to do & that is buy it and support the developer (Simone Bevilaqua/ RETREAM) for creating such an "extremely impressive piece of design and coding by an accomplished developer, and is exactly the sort of effort that deserves support and enthusiasm.."

Bravo Mr. Humphrey

[saimo]

I didn't know about this. Thanks klx300r for reporting it and, of course, thanks to Graham Humphrey for such nice words!

[saimo]

@all

Just a quick heads-up to let you know that, after some months, the deluxe edition is back in stock on the RGCD store!

[meckert]

Originally Posted by saimo

@all

Just a quick heads-up to let you know that, after some months, the deluxe edition is back in stock on the RGCD store!

Hi Saimo ! I've bought you rgame a while ago, play it now and then, and I think it's really missing a saveable high score table. Any chance for an update ?

[saimo]

Originally Posted by meckert

Hi Saimo ! I've bought you rgame a while ago, play it now and then,

Thank you for buying it, and glad to hear you play it

and I think it's really missing a saveable high score table. Any chance for an update ?

Sorry, not possible for several reasons:
* RGCD doesn't like updates after the physical copies are produced;
* when I wrote the game, I've been paranoid about RAM consumption in order to get the game to run on a A1200s without RAM expansion; I used almost all the available RAM, and while there is probably RAM for a table (and the code to handle it and allow the entering of names), using it could cause the game not to run on those A1200 who have a few hardware devices attached (e.g. an hard disk with several partitions), as those steal some RAM right at boot - and I wouldn't want anyone to start experiencing problems;
* I'm busy with other stuff (yes, for classic Amiga) at the moment

BTW, wanting to save as much RAM as possible is the reason why the title screen is so static. I would have liked to animate/cycle the RETREAM and RGCD logos, but the I decided to leave that gimmick out and reduce the risk of causing issues on particular setups.

Probably you have noticed already, but, for who doesn't know, let me point out that the best highscore does get saved and displayed.

[saimo]

This is a reply to this post and the subject of originality not being appreciated discussed in the same thread (discussing it over there would have been OT, as that thread dedicated to Metro Siege).
In short, in that thread, among other things, it was said that originality is not much appreciated and, that, instead, the public rather wants classic-style things; later, Tsak presented a preview of a mod he made for Metro Siege, and a little sub-conversation started - it went like this:

Originally Posted by saimo

Really high quality music. Also, it fits the game perfectly. Congratulations! And thanks for the prog-rock vibes.

Originally Posted by Tsak

You're welcome
I've noticed that Skillgrid also shares similar sensitivities

Originally Posted by saimo

Indeed Unfortunately, I've read a few times comments along the lines of "What? No techno? Not good...", so I wish you won't get the same - and I'd be very surprised if that happens, because, again, I think the track and the level you shared match nicely.

Originally Posted by skan

Are you serious?!? Amiga game + prog(gish) mod = instant love!

Yep, I'm serious. For example, a few days ago I've read a review of SkillGrid that, regarding music, says:

"[...] I'm not a fan of rock sounds that dominate the game. In this type of game I prefer electronic sounds.[...]"

Do something really new and, generally speaking, it won't be appreciated - or even understood at all! With SkillGrid, all departments are affected by that:
* gameplay, totally original (not just for Amiga): Oh, it isn't like game xyz... oh, it's difficult... oh, it's unfair... etc.
* graphics, as far as I know, doing what had never been done before on Amiga (3 parallax layers + 1 fixed layer, all with real translucencies): Oh, the parallax is distracting... oh, this can be done in OCS... oh, AGA could do better... etc.
* music, as far as I know, doing what had never been done before on Amiga, at least on vanilla A1200 (flac-like ~28.9 kHz 10-12 tracks stereo music which also leaves 2 channels free for sound samples): Oh, it ain't techno... oh, it only plays in certain circumstances... etc.

For completeness, it has to be said that there have been also positive/correct comments. I'm just pointing out that originality is often not appreciated, because it requires the effort of learning and adapting to something new, and sometimes (also) because of ignorance relatively to the technical capabilities of the machine.

(Side note: this thread is about SkillGrid so I'm focusing on that, but I've seen the same happening for all my games, except for MeMO, which, in fact, is not meant to be an original game; even Blastaway, which is my only other "canonical" game, received criticism for its only little novelty, i.e. the fact that if the player gets killed in the entrance area, the doors remain open and the enemies can kill the backup soldiers.)

[Tigerskunk]

I will write a longer reply later on, since I am on my phone now, but what you write about is one of the reasons why I will keep away from AGA for the time being.

People overestimate the power of the 1200 a fair bit imo..

[skan]

Originally Posted by saimo

...originality is not much appreciated and, that, instead, the public rather wants classic-style things...

That's a pretty common problem across all genres and all platforms, retro and modern. And it all starts the very moment you SELL something because you have to adapt to the masses' taste, fashion of the year, or whatever.
On the other hand, if your work belongs to the open source / freeware / public domain arena, you can afford much more freedom and "who gives a f*ck" attitude. IMHO, at least.

The things I'm planning on Amiga will be done in my (very limited) spare time and just for fun, so if the result will be a cliché-ridden-fest or something so odd that will be understood by just a fistful of players, well... "who gives a f*ck"-attitude mode activated!

Completely different story when it comes to commercial works. I was involved in a VR game and dude, you're basically a b!tch with way too many daddies the very moment you land on Steam!

[saimo]

Originally Posted by Steril707

I will write a longer reply later on, since I am on my phone now, but what you write about is one of the reasons why I will keep away from AGA for the time being.

Your contribution would be welcome, but from what you wrote it's already 100% clear to me what you mean

People overestimate the power of the 1200 a fair bit imo..

Yep, that happens every now and then / often.
Anyway, the chipset can actually do marvels, and it's fair to ask for products that exploit it. What bothers me is when somebody who doesn't have the necessary (technical) understanding makes absolute statements, especially in reviews. Here's another example from the aforementioned review:

"[...] I'm a bit worried about the quality of some units. Although they are decently made and legible, they are characterised by some angularity. It could have been a bit better in AGA. [...]"

Well, no, it couldn't (unless compromising other aspects).

[saimo]

Originally Posted by skan

That's a pretty common problem across all genres and all platforms, retro and modern.

Yes, absolutely.

And it all starts the very moment you SELL something because you have to adapt to the masses' taste, fashion of the year, or whatever.
On the other hand, if your work belongs to the open source / freeware / public domain arena, you can afford much more freedom and "who gives a f*ck" attitude. IMHO, at least.

It doesn't work like that for me. I make games first and foremost because the process itself is something that I deeply enjoy and that gives me a sense of fullfillment, and because it's what allows to materialize my dreams. So, regardless of whether the game is going to be free or not, I do exactly what I want - and that almost always means going totally wild, searching for originality.
But totally off-the-mark comments do bother me, even if they're relative to a free game. For example, in a recent review of QUOD INIT EXIT, a very simple and free game for C64, the reviewer said that the game is unfair because it's often impossible to catch a certain object; well, the point is that the game, despite being simple, has some original mechanics which require understanding and appropriate strategies; once that is achieved - and it takes very little - the object can be easily reached. Now, that judgement happened to be printed in one of the famous annuals that have so much popularity this days, so it bothers me even more that a lot of people get to read that the game is sh*t when it's the reviewer to be sh*t at it, instead My skin is sufficiently thick to deal with that kind of things, but it's a real pity that wrong comments written as absolute truths might steer people away from a game they might instead enjoy.

The things I'm planning on Amiga will be done in my (very limited) spare time and just for fun, so if the result will be a cliché-ridden-fest or something so odd that will be understood by just a fistful of players, well... "who gives a f*ck"-attitude mode activated!

Good luck with your project!

[Predseda]

@saimo - still, regarding the music, there is one version of your game in existence that I would REALLY LOVE to have and that can not be freely available. You know which one.

[roondar]

I actually felt that Skill Grid used a very interesting technique for it's graphics. One that cleverly shows some of the advantages of having more bitplanes to play around with. So, I'd argue it actually shows some of AGA's advantages quite well. Same with the music & sound - I somehow don't think it'd all fit in just 1MB (though I'm not the developer, so I could easily be wrong here).

But I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll keep it at that.

Good to hear it's back in stock, though. RGCD does nice products. Never got around to getting the game originally, might do so now.

[saimo]

Originally Posted by Predseda

@saimo - still, regarding the music, there is one version of your game in existence that I would REALLY LOVE to have and that can not be freely available. You know which one.

I hear you. But maybe this time around I have some positive news: the release of that special version is no longer 100% ruled out... just 99%
It's (partially) connected to the release of... an updated version of the whole game, which I basically had ready for months! However, it isn't sure that this version will be released at all either - for the moment being, I can't say more. Actually, I should have kept quiet, but I just couldn't resist...
So, here's a little distraction: in less than two weeks I'll release something totally new and different...

[saimo]

Originally Posted by roondar

I actually felt that Skill Grid used a very interesting technique for it's graphics. One that cleverly shows some of the advantages of having more bitplanes to play around with. So, I'd argue it actually shows some of AGA's advantages quite well. Same with the music & sound.

Thanks, roondar! From your posts here I see you have a deep knowledge of the Amiga hardware, so your comments are much appreciated

I somehow don't think it'd all fit in just 1MB (though I'm not the developer, so I could easily be wrong here)

In fact it doesn't The music alone takes about 1.5 MB (although the game is made to run on a stock A1200) - it's one of the unusual (and rather crazy) design choices I made.

But I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll keep it at that.

Oh, but this thread is precisely about SkillGrid, so you were perfectly on-topic.

Good to hear it's back in stock, though. RGCD does nice products.

Indeed. And with SkillGrid they really insisted to go overboard (which also ensued that preparing the package took me quite a long time and lots of sweat, but the final product provided great satisfaction).

Never got around to getting the game originally, might do so now.

Wow, that's cool! Many, many thanks!

[Tigerskunk]

The problem I see with AGA is, that you would need to smack the people over their heads with the graphics.
Which is not only a technical problem, but one of massively increased time for asset creation as well.

I have read so many times "this game could be done in OCS". With games like Rygar or even that new EON game demo which was shown just yesterday.

Well, since I am having some experience now, I certainly know, that this is not the case, but it seems the "regular joe" out there expects something extraordinary with AGA graphics that's in the vicinity of at least the technically best SNES games that appeared very late in the consoles life time. Stuff like Donkey Kong Country, Mortal Kombat 2 in Arcade Quality, etc...

Feels very unthankful to me, and I prefer staying on OCS for that reason alone.

[saimo]

Originally Posted by Steril707

The problem I see with AGA is, that you would need to smack the people over their heads with the graphics.
Which is not only a technical problem, but one of massively increased time for asset creation as well.

I have read so many times "this game could be done in OCS". With games like Rygar or even that new EON game demo which was shown just yesterday.

Well, since I am having some experience now, I certainly know, that this is not the case, but it seems the "regular joe" out there expects something extraordinary with AGA graphics that's in the vicinity of at least the technically best SNES games that appeared very late in the consoles life time. Stuff like Donkey Kong Country, Mortal Kombat 2 in Arcade Quality, etc...

Yes, that's true. But, to be fair, one can't expect all users to know let alone understand the technical details. There's people who can't even tell the difference between two resolutions, 25 and 50 Hz refresh rates, or 10 kHz and 44 kHz samples. In SkillGrid's case, most people (reviewers included) don't even notice the translucency of graphical elements or that the music being played in the background isn't a regular mod. That's understandable and to be accepted. The problem is when Regular Joe insists even after being explained and, even worse, when it's people writing reviews who lack the required understanding - not to mention the superficiality which they try the games out with. For example, the aforementioned SkillGrid review begins right away with a mistake: the name is "SkillGrid", not "Skill Grid" - heck, you're reviewing a game and you don't even know its correct name? OK, so the logo fooled you: but if you had taken the time to at least open the 16-page manual - which, by the way, would have let you understand the game - you would have realized that there's no space. Other similar example: the review on MAH on the major C64 annual begins by quoting three latin words from the game: well, the third word is written incorrectly; if the reviewer failed to even just copy words, how can he review a game that has no equal in videogaming history and has intricate (without being rocket science) mechanics?

[saimon69]

Well, since I am having some experience now, I certainly know, that this is not the case, but it seems the "regular joe" out there expects something extraordinary with AGA graphics that's in the vicinity of at least the technically best SNES games that appeared very late in the consoles life time. Stuff like Donkey Kong Country, Mortal Kombat 2 in Arcade Quality, etc...

That's the fault on how they sold AGA to us, they said 256 colors on screen and we miserable humans want them all! Or at least 128 of them without dual playfield... ^^

[saimon69]

Saimo, you should come in this other thread, we are exactly discussing this topic!