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Old 28 March 2020, 13:58   #21
no9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiga68k View Post
Even screenshot on Demozoo says 15 is the magic number.

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Old 28 March 2020, 14:00   #22
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my two cents : VBLANK versus CIA ...
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Old 28 March 2020, 14:02   #23
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I guessed something like that .... but what it means exactly ?
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Old 28 March 2020, 14:07   #24
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Whatever modplayer used should be set to replay in VBLANK. In Protracker, there's a button for that. In Windows port of Protracker, I'm pasting the doc:
CTRL +F12 = Toggle Fxx effect timing between VBLANK and CIA (default)
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Old 28 March 2020, 14:11   #25
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So, they are two ways to play the module .... i will check EaglePlayer .... thanks for the info Asle
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Old 28 March 2020, 14:11   #26
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Like Axxy mentioned, also different versions are seen...

From the archive "Noiseless-DizzyTunesII.lha":

Code:
Reading "mod.face another day 2.pp" (313340 bytes)...
Decrunching "PowerPacker Data" file...
Writing "mod.face another day 2.pp" (408406 bytes)...
Link to modland: 407416 bytes
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Old 28 March 2020, 14:57   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asle View Post
Whatever modplayer used should be set to replay in VBLANK. In Protracker, there's a button for that. In Windows port of Protracker, I'm pasting the doc:
CTRL +F12 = Toggle Fxx effect timing between VBLANK and CIA (default)
How does it explain screen posted by buggs where BPM at the end of tune is set to 32?
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Old 28 March 2020, 16:12   #28
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again, it's VBLANK, so, no "set BPM" command.
I think it gets off topic quick, here.
You guys raised weird duration of musics so I explained the replay used was wrong.
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Old 28 March 2020, 16:43   #29
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Maybe over the years, different people have tried editing it to get it to play correctly on PC using different trackers... Heretics...
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Old 28 March 2020, 17:21   #30
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I'm asking questions when something is unclear to me.

Ok, I investigated it by myself. JL, by mistake or deliberately, did use F20 command at module position 30 / pattern 23 / row 37 (and at some later points) which causes unwanted slowdown. Fixed version brings the change of F20 to F1F. VBLANK mode ignores that command and plays at 125 BPM all the time.
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Old 28 March 2020, 17:22   #31
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Yes, well, it goes back to the "old days", actually, when Nemesis1 (among others) would "CIA-fix" those musics
But that's not the issue of the modland version of "face another day 2", here. The size difference is due to someone "optimizing" said music by deleting sampls material that is after loop ends.
And yes, this music is 15 minutes long when properly replayed.
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Old 28 March 2020, 17:25   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxy View Post
Maybe over the years, different people have tried editing it to get it to play correctly on PC using different trackers... Heretics...
This thread brought funny turn of events since it proved that Amiga players played it in wrong way too
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Old 28 March 2020, 17:30   #33
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Quote:
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I'm asking questions when something is unclear to me.

Ok, I investigated it by myself. JL, by mistake or deliberately, did use F20 command at module position 30 / pattern 23 / row 37 (and at some later points) which causes unwanted slowdown. Fixed version brings the change of F20 to F1F. VBLANK mode ignores that command and plays at 125 BPM all the time.
You are right to ask questions when you need to. Nothing wrong at all with that.
Now, F20 is PERFECTLY valid in VBLANK mode. it's slower than F1F. and F21 is even slower, etc.

And why assume Jogeir made a "mistake" ?!? There's even a F23 in there. No, believe me, there's no mistake. Just use the proper replay, that's all
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Old 28 March 2020, 17:36   #34
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Now, F20 is PERFECTLY valid in VBLANK mode. it's slower than F1F. and F21 is even slower, etc.
Ok, I stand corrected. I did never use those commands that way.
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Old 28 March 2020, 18:24   #35
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Choosing VBlank in Protracker was never a good choice. Ok, maybe in the '80. I use CIA timing for 30 years now. And yes, back in the days I also wondered why face another day 2 played at wrong speed/tempo. At least that was the guess. You never know if that was the authors purpose.
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Old 28 March 2020, 21:30   #36
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I notice quite a lot of blame being cast in this thread. Interestingly, all of it in the wrong direction.

It's neither modplayers, nor other trackers/players but plain and simply Protracker itself that caused the SNAFU with FAD II. Also, Jogeir just used the tool of his choice in the way that it allowed his intentions to be applied to his music.

Please let me elaborate a little (for those not too familiar with trackers, demo-coding and such). Early Trackers were bound to the VBLANK interrupt for timing, a method that was also common among game and demo coders for graphics timing. The replay speed in terms of pattern positions (or notes) per second was therefore limited to fractions of the 50 Hz (PAL) master timing source. Depending on the preference of the musician, the tempo can be adjusted as desired by respective commands (Fxx in PT).

Now, the tempo parameter was initially only controlling the aforementioned master clock divider. It's valid range was assumed between 1 and 31 (e.g. StarTrekker enforces these limits by clamping). As it happened, Protracker did introduce a more fine-grained timing method by using the more flexible CIA timers. For that purpose, the Fxx command was overloaded with a new meaning: Values >32 were to be treated as parameters for the CIA timer adjustment, while anything below still refers to the classic Tempo command.

While that is nice and well (and boring for actual tracker musicians, sorry guys), why my earlier statement towards Protracker?

The problem is as follows: Protracker will actually treat Fxx > 32 differently in CIA or VBLANK operating mode. In CIA mode, it adjusts the timers by the command, while in VBLANK mode the tempo is changed to master clock dividers >32.

The decision about the operating mode is local to the Protracker installation, i.e. happens by user selection. There is no hint or indication in the modules, nothing, nada. You simply can't detect automatically by the contents of a module whether it was designed for CIA (default) or VBLANK timing.

To summarize: Protracker is inconsistent to itself in corner cases like the mod discussed here.

A fix to keep PT consistent would have been easy: Just clamp Tempo to 1..32 in VBLANK mode of the editor. That train has left the station long ago, though.
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Old 28 March 2020, 22:00   #37
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Yep. And further Protracker is not compatible in its different versions when it comes to how a command has to be interpreted. The best way to play a module correct is to play it on the program version it was done. But this info is usually unknown or at least not always. SNAFU as you wrote. Maybe Protracker went through too many different hands over the years.
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Old 29 March 2020, 18:40   #38
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Since we have this sorted out... at this point "Moon Project" by Substance is the longest module with lenght: 23:54, right?

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 30 March 2020, 01:05   #39
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I haven't checked out the module myself yet, but Forgotten Dreams by Voyager might clock in at 26:10 https://amp.dascene.net/downmod.php?index=75149
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Old 30 March 2020, 12:31   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip View Post
I found a module longer

It's called mod.klisje paa klisje and it is 29 minutes long

Anyway, it's in the zone for anyone who want to check
I did a check and it hast the VBLANK/CIA issue that buggs described. It seems it was made in VBLANK mode and it uses many speed commands (Fxx) and at pattern $20, track 4, position 63 there is F20 what sets tempo (BPM) to 32. Later there is a F30. If you change it to F1F the mod duration is about 10-11 minutes.

So if you see/listen to a very long mod you should check for wrong timings. Tell me if you find a mod longer then 28:30 minutes.
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