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Old 13 January 2021, 23:43   #61
aeberbach
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Saying that something is overpriced because something else is even more overpriced is perhaps not the strong argument you hope it is.
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Old 13 January 2021, 23:49   #62
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Saying that something is overpriced because something else is even more overpriced is perhaps not the strong argument you hope it is.
Ok, let us say that I want a powerful Amiga experience. How much would a (functional, recapped) A1200 with a WARP and a rev.6 060 cost?
Compared to that (and bearing in mind both the Amiga and the 060 are both old hardware), 500-600 euros are not overpriced at all.
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Old 14 January 2021, 00:15   #63
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Ok, let us say that I want a powerful Amiga experience. How much would a (functional, recapped) A1200 with a WARP and a rev.6 060 cost?
Compared to that (and bearing in mind both the Amiga and the 060 are both old hardware), 500-600 euros are not overpriced at all.
The fact that obsolete computers fetch hundreds is a disgusting element of retro computing. I sincerely hope FPGA and extremely accurate emulators take over and the market tanks.

Last edited by EAUniW; 14 January 2021 at 00:27.
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Old 14 January 2021, 06:38   #64
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The fact that obsolete computers fetch hundreds is a disgusting element of retro computing. I sincerely hope FPGA and extremely accurate emulators take over and the market tanks.
There will always be a market for original hardware, and as with all markets, supply vs demand sets the price. This is why a real Amiga Next could address the supply side.

I agree with your comment that the ZX Spectrum had a "very endearing look, much like the C64" and I believe that this has contributed to the success of the ZX Spectrum Next and THEC64.

I think the Amiga has some classic designs especially the A1200 and A3000, so much so that there are replacement A1200 cases http://amigaonthelake.com/amiga-a1200-case-white/ and mini A3000 cases https://www.checkmate1500plus.com/

I think there would be significant backing for an Amiga Next Kickstarter with an FPGA based system (Vampire?) in an A1200 style case with CherryMX compatible keyboard (for keycap fans) and SD card slot for removable media, that could be plugged straight into a TV much like the Raspberry Pi 400.
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Old 14 January 2021, 06:44   #65
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Streetfighter 2 killed the Amiga. I think it was 16 bit consoles that started it. Commodore underestimated the fact that the Amiga was the machine where you had the best-looking games. Once that changed with the SNES and MD. Users started to migrate to consoles. Sure the Amiga had a lot of productviity users too - but once you lose the mainstream that reduces the user-base and developers jump ship to the more lucrative waters. I was there at the time and read the interviews - with the developers saying things like "we are moving to consoles this will be our last Amiga game" and also how the Amiga was often no longer the lead format - like it had been in the past.

That's why I always say AGA was good but it wasn't good enough to get people to stay with the Amiga for the games. Even on the AGA machines there was nothing that looked and played as good as F-Zero for example. Even now that game looks good! Commodore needed to make more game specific hardware

BTW I have never played Doom on an Amiga so I am now consider myself a loyalist
CD32 was almost a thing.
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Old 14 January 2021, 14:02   #66
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CD32 was almost a thing.
The CD32 should've had a dedicated 3D chip much like the GTE in the PS1 to push out thousands of polygons without breaking a sweat. It would've landed in Europe two years before the PS1 and with evident 3D capabilities, it would've bloodied Sony's nose if Commodore had kept the developers onside with promises of no piracy and total command of the GTE.
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Old 14 January 2021, 15:53   #67
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The fact that obsolete computers fetch hundreds is a disgusting element of retro computing. I sincerely hope FPGA and extremely accurate emulators take over and the market tanks.
Custom chips don't exist. iComp has Alice chips, and will do that A1200 Reloaded - a simply Amazing REAL new Amiga - really real. That one I'm waiting for.

But for anyone else, to make the custom chips would cost a lot. FPGA is the only solution.

It is here and it is affordable. I mean UNAMIGA at 150-175 Euro depending on model - come on, NO BRAINER! Can't beat it. UNAMIGA is the Mic Drop product if you ask me, considering how much it costs to put DE10 NANO together. Of course the DE10 has many other capabilities, and I believe it is faster than the other FPGA implementations.

UNAMIGA is 2x A3000 at 10.88 Mips, RTG, AGA, 9pin support - it is just lovely really. For those wanting Amiga, I don't see how this product at the price it is being offered doesn't go STRAIGHT TO THE TOP of FPGA options for Amiga fans.

...now THIS is how a 'hobbyproject" is done Chucky!. No "diskheads" made this guy fold and go into hermit mode.
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Old 14 January 2021, 16:09   #68
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What's stopping someone recreating the discrete OCS / AGA chips in FPGAs and simply using them as replacements?

FPGA Paula, FPGA Denise and the rest?
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Old 14 January 2021, 16:51   #69
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What's stopping someone recreating the discrete OCS / AGA chips in FPGAs and simply using them as replacements?

FPGA Paula, FPGA Denise and the rest?
Nothing. It's here. Vampire. DE10. UNAMIGA. All Lovely FPGAs simulating the Amiga.

Fun projects, not at all expensive to explore - except Vampire of course.

DO IT! Explore them. People supporting the cores are doing lovely work, and deserve the support.

P.S. Using FPGA for each specific chip would be expensive (one FPGA per chip?), a bit pointless, and my understanding is that the original chipset still holds some mysteries that have not been fully ported. These FPGAs we have simulate the entire chipset inside the core - so they are doing what you suggest - many chips inside of one more powerful chip.

You know how it is, you make a real apple one way only, and once it is apple sauce, it can't be an apple anymore.
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Old 14 January 2021, 16:53   #70
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Which one is the cheapest and supports stock 500 OCS and 1200 AGA?

As in no fancy post-Commodore stuff.
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Old 14 January 2021, 16:57   #71
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Which one is the cheapest and supports stock 500 OCS and 1200 AGA?
UNAMIGA. 152 Euro. It slices. It dices.

https://www.arananet.net/pedidos/pro...ses-pre-order/
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Old 14 January 2021, 17:01   #72
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UNAMIGA. 152 Euro. It slices. It dices.

https://www.arananet.net/pedidos/pro...ses-pre-order/
Does it work with a 500 Plus? Mine has been in the attic space for 20 years but I'm going to bring it down soon and restore it.

If the UNAMIGA brings actual AGA, I'm going to buy it.
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Old 14 January 2021, 17:02   #73
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"I'm starting to think anyone who plays DOOM on Amiga is paying tribute to the very game that contributed to the death of one of the most friendly computers ever!"
Heh. I don't play games to pay tribute to anything. It's just the best FPS on Amiga. Even though it's not in my top10 games, I'm nostalgic for Doom. And having it running on Amiga is quirky and fun.


But there's a hint of truth in it: Playing Gloom, AB3D, especially FEARS is what makes me sad. It's the most miserable, void-of-imagination period in Amiga gaming. Made me think OK, I think I'll do something else with my time.

Amiga Magazine headlines were just embarrassing at that point. Praising a turd like FEARS
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Old 14 January 2021, 17:05   #74
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Does it work with a 500 Plus? Mine has been in the attic space for 20 years but I'm going to bring it down soon and restore it.

If the UNAMIGA brings actual AGA, I'm going to buy it.
Looks like straight Mobo replacement swap-in to 500 cases. I was going to buy one, but they sold out, so I was left with the ITX version - which isn't bad either, because it leaves some interesting casing opportunities - including throwing it into an A1000 for example as well. You'll have to wait for next drop of UNAMIGA 500s I guess.

To be honest, if there is one Amiga that gets NO LOVE it is the 1000. An UNAMIGA header for an A1000 would be amazing - turn those old 1000s into awesome machines that can dance with 1200 any day.
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Old 14 January 2021, 17:11   #75
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An authorised Amiga Next modelled around the 1000 would be a sweet gesture. The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning. The 1000 was a revolution, let the copyright holders knock their skulls together, back into a sense of reality, and release an Amiga 1000 Next that honours O/ECS/AGA but builds on it with a true FPGA AAA/Hombre chipset.

I'd consider THAT the true successor to the Commodore line.
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Old 14 January 2021, 17:23   #76
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An authorised Amiga Next modelled around the 1000 would be a sweet gesture. The beginning is the end and the end is the beginning. The 1000 was a revolution, let the copyright holders knock their skulls together, back into a sense of reality, and release an Amiga 1000 Next that honours O/ECS/AGA but builds on it with a true FPGA AAA/Hombre chipset.

I'd consider THAT the true successor to the Commodore line.
A1200.net is wisely doing the A500 case next after doing the A1200 already.

Stephen did the Checkmate 1500 - so we really have a great desktop case already that does a lot in the A3000 form factor. And while that is definitely a nice case, doing the A1000 case run would be killer!

The A1000 case with replaceable back panels is really quite versatile in adopting to many needs. It would be a lovely point to come back to, bring back the A1000 - the original. In place of the 256kb RAM upgrade put in ability for CD or cards, or other things - that could still be covered to maintain the look. Beige and Black color. Ability to support PC hardware even in mITX form.

I know what I described above is Stephen's Checkmate 1500, which I supported as well. But it doesn't look like an A1000. That classic revolutionary first should be remade!
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Old 14 January 2021, 17:29   #77
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The 1000 always felt more like an American Amiga, even though they all were in a sense. Because the Amiga really took off in Europe once the 500 lauched, the 1000 remains stylistically apart from the design language employed in the 500 and 2000 and onwards to the 4000 and 4000T. A very unique machine in terms of Kickstart, Workbench, upgrade potential and hardware design.
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Old 14 January 2021, 17:33   #78
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The 1000 always felt more like an American Amiga, even though they all were in a sense. Because the Amiga really took off in Europe once the 500 lauched, the 1000 remains stylistically apart from the design language employed in the 500 and 2000 and onwards to the 4000 and 4000T. A very unique machine in terms of Kickstart, Workbench, upgrade potential and hardware design.
Yeah, OK. But still...Amiga 1000 is the one. The first. 500/2000 come 2 years later.

I agree that the wedge for some reason to me is the perfect Amiga. But that 1000 format is nice. It makes me think of 128D, but better. 3000 is pretty, I agree with Stephen's preference for it, and his Checkmate 1500 was just lovely tribute to the 3000. Really can't be done better. I would do one thing for his cases that would make them PERFECT. I suggested it, he didn't go for it though. You know what...let me nag him one more time about it. - yeah, no go on that idea. It's OK, I managed to get it done for my case.

Last edited by YouKnowWho; 14 January 2021 at 18:54.
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Old 14 January 2021, 17:37   #79
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I agree, a 1000 case to put all my tech in would be golden, because it's back-end only. You can't just slot anything in at the front, it's static and the only to add a drive is to saw away at it, which is blasphemy.
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Old 15 January 2021, 00:39   #80
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I agree, a 1000 case to put all my tech in would be golden, because it's back-end only. You can't just slot anything in at the front, it's static and the only to add a drive is to saw away at it, which is blasphemy.
Put whatever you want behind the front cover. Then "clip" and you got it. GOTEK, CF, CD-ROM, whatever you want. When not in use, clip the cover back, and go into stealth mode.

I did a conversion of a 128D case into an HTPC. Welding in a new bed for PC motherboard and everything. Takes 1/2 height PCIe cards - the works. I kept the floppy lock on front, but behind the floppy I put in a slot loading DVD-ROM. So the 5 1/4 bay is still functional, but for DVD loading. I think it came out smashing. Oh, this 128D case, I did hack away at it. Since it was a HTPC, I put in a VFD to show media title playback on the front of the unit. Nothing offensive - 2 line VFD to show track info for music. I'm lining up a few A1000 conversions - it's going to be fun! I hope I don't run out of winter to get it done.

Have to stop wasting time on here, and talking about TF1260s that don't exist and never will and get to it! Thing is, I need to retrobrite and few things, and we're too far away from the sun right now!. ...I think.
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