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Old 12 January 2021, 17:16   #41
EAUniW
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Know what's hot? DOOM on the Amiga?

Know what's hotter? DOOM on the C64.
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Old 12 January 2021, 17:27   #42
d4rk3lf
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What about calculator... or oscilloscope?
I think there's Doom versions for that too.
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Old 12 January 2021, 17:36   #43
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No. I betrayed the Amiga by not having mine repaired when it broke and simply moseying on to a PC, tossing the Amiga away. Regretful, but Toni gifted us WinUAE to soften the blow I felt a good decade later when the nostalgia bug started to bite me really hard.

A PC on which yes, I played games like the 7th Guest and Doom and Warcraft 2 and X-Wing and Sam & Max and a flipping huge list of games that never made it to the Amiga platform, at least not in any official capacity.
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Old 12 January 2021, 18:00   #44
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Streetfighter 2 killed the Amiga. I think it was 16 bit consoles that started it. Commodore underestimated the fact that the Amiga was the machine where you had the best-looking games. Once that changed with the SNES and MD. Users started to migrate to consoles. Sure the Amiga had a lot of productviity users too - but once you lose the mainstream that reduces the user-base and developers jump ship to the more lucrative waters. I was there at the time and read the interviews - with the developers saying things like "we are moving to consoles this will be our last Amiga game" and also how the Amiga was often no longer the lead format - like it had been in the past.

That's why I always say AGA was good but it wasn't good enough to get people to stay with the Amiga for the games. Even on the AGA machines there was nothing that looked and played as good as F-Zero for example. Even now that game looks good! Commodore needed to make more game specific hardware

BTW I have never played Doom on an Amiga so I am now consider myself a loyalist
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Old 12 January 2021, 18:08   #45
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I wanted an Amiga as a kid because I saw it in a catalogue alongside Back to the Future Part II. My parents weren't impressed by the price but my uncle had an Amiga so I went along one day and he showed me Deluxe Paint II and it was literally life changing. I fell in love instantly with the idea of drawing on a computer screen with a mouse in 32 colours.

I was a gamer on the Amiga, but it's the productivity apps that linger in my mind the most when thinking about that era. I think I used Deluxe Paint twice as much as all the games combined. The very idea of a digital paintbox seemed to go perfectly hand in hand with the Amiga OCS chipset.

Gilbert is right in saying once the Amiga lost the gamers, it lost everything as the gamers were selling the 500 in droves and without them, it was a niche machine. Popular with creatives but not enough to allow it to continue past AGA, regardless of Commodore's shoddy business decisions.

The Amiga needed to not only keep up with the consoles and evolving PC gaming market but run ahead as it did for a fair few years in the '80s. OCS allowed for beautiful and immersive games with wonderful 32 colour graphics and stereo sampled sound. AGA and CD support should've been in place by 1990 to take the Amiga into the era of 256 colour high resolution graphics with more storage space than you can shake a pre-rendered stick at.

But it didn't, and when Commodore went bust in 1994, the Amiga looked essentially as it did in 1985. Once the king, now a bit tatty and static next to the consoles.

Last edited by EAUniW; 12 January 2021 at 18:22.
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Old 12 January 2021, 18:53   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAUniW View Post
Gilbert is right in saying once the Amiga lost the gamers, it lost everything as the gamers were selling the 500 in droves and without them, it was a niche machine. Popular with creatives but not enough to allow it to continue past AGA, regardless of Commodore's shoddy business decisions.
.
Thanks man! No one has ever said I'm right before *thumbs up*

Sinclair made the same mistake as Commodore - they underestimated the importance of games to the Spectrum's appeal and thought it was all about low cost. The follow-up machines were business orientated and under powered and no-one wanted them. End of Sinclair...
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Old 12 January 2021, 19:05   #47
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Sinclair QL - Nice idea, no games.

Sinclair should've created a ZX Spectrum 2 with enhanced graphics and sound that was backwards compatible. The various iterations of the Spectrum did nothing to address the problem that the graphics and audio were being rapidly left behind by competitors.

The Spectrum should've made it to a 3rd gen revision with capabilities on par with the OCS chipset when it was retired but alas.

Just imagine a true Matt Smith coded sequel for Jet Set Willy on the Speccy 2 and a remaster of Manic Miner on the Speccy 3.
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Old 13 January 2021, 02:18   #48
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Sinclair QL - Nice idea, no games.

Sinclair should've created a ZX Spectrum 2 with enhanced graphics and sound that was backwards compatible. The various iterations of the Spectrum did nothing to address the problem that the graphics and audio were being rapidly left behind by competitors.

The Spectrum should've made it to a 3rd gen revision with capabilities on par with the OCS chipset when it was retired but alas.

Just imagine a true Matt Smith coded sequel for Jet Set Willy on the Speccy 2 and a remaster of Manic Miner on the Speccy 3.

That is why we have the ZX Spectrum Next https://www.specnext.com
The Kickerstarter for issue 2 has recently raised £1,847,106 from 5236 backers https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...m-next-issue-2

Now imagine a Kickstarter for an Amiga Next kitted out with switchable FPGA cores for OCS, ECS, AGA, AAA and Hombre. How many backers would that attract?

Last edited by Pierre; 13 January 2021 at 04:42.
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Old 13 January 2021, 03:27   #49
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Now imagine a Kickstarter for an Amiga Next kitted out with switchable FPGA cores for OCS, ECS, AGA, AAA and Hombre. How backers would that attract?
None, I hope. The Spectrum platform has a huge potential in specification and chipset bumping. I imagine the third generation ZX Next will be on par with AGA which is a wonderful place to be to make Spectrum inspired games in terms of visuals and audio. 256 colours, proper audio, all that.

Hombre would look like shit now as the Spectrum has a very endearing look, much like the C64. Whereas the Amiga gave us a glimpse of the modern era in 1985, and Hombre would look like a PlayStation 0.5.

And that isn't endearing.

Actually, do you know what would be good? A PlayStation 1 equivalent that's easy to code for. There's no real retro computer that picks up after the 16-bit years. I love the PS1 look, just implement a Z-buffer and bump the RAM to 16MB with a good 3D programming environment and hey presto.

Last edited by EAUniW; 13 January 2021 at 13:03.
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Old 13 January 2021, 12:32   #50
KONEY
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For myself it's the exact opposite as in 1995 I played DOOM on an Amiga 3000 with CyberVision, emulating a mac
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Old 13 January 2021, 13:49   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAUniW View Post
Sinclair QL - Nice idea, no games.

Sinclair should've created a ZX Spectrum 2 with enhanced graphics and sound that was backwards compatible. The various iterations of the Spectrum did nothing to address the problem that the graphics and audio were being rapidly left behind by competitors.

The Spectrum should've made it to a 3rd gen revision with capabilities on par with the OCS chipset when it was retired but alas.

Just imagine a true Matt Smith coded sequel for Jet Set Willy on the Speccy 2 and a remaster of Manic Miner on the Speccy 3.
Would it have been that successful ?

Amstrad tried it , and gave it a fairly decent stab hardware wise with the CPC+ , but 16 bits were king by then
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Old 13 January 2021, 14:08   #52
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Hindsight is a painful thing, especially with our favourite computers.

Who knows, but in some alternative timeline, the Speccy III was right alongside the Amiga and they traded equal punches in terms of chipset capability and loyal userbase. It's why I really like the Spectrum Next, it's powerful and in no way not a Spectrum, it's a clear and useful evolution of the 16/48K stock Spectrums.

The lack of an authorised Amiga Next is shameful. Full FPGA AAA chipset and a Level 2 Next with Hombre.
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Old 13 January 2021, 14:21   #53
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The lack of an authorised Amiga Next is shameful. Full FPGA AAA chipset and a Level 2 Next with Hombre.
The Vampire is the Amiga Next and even better.
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Old 13 January 2021, 15:51   #54
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The Vampire is the Amiga Next and even better.
I know the Vamp does SAGA but what are the key differences between SAGA and AAA?
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Old 13 January 2021, 16:46   #55
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Well, SAGA is real, for one.

But both SAGA and AAA have zero games that support them. :P

There is also a cool new 3D feature that will feature in the next core update.

Here are the SAGA specs from apollo's wiki:
https://wiki.apollo-accelerators.com...php/saga:video
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Old 13 January 2021, 17:09   #56
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Think I'll just stick to OCS. SAGA sounds like a case of we can do this rather than asking why.
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Old 13 January 2021, 17:21   #57
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Of course one can choose to stay OCS, it's the same as in the Spectrum world. Personally, I love my A500 and it offers a different Amiga enjoyment from the one the Vampire does, but I would not say that I would choose one over the other.

I am just answering about your comment on the existence of an Amiga Next. It's available, for those who want such a thing and it's pretty sweet.

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The lack of an authorised Amiga Next is shameful. Full FPGA AAA chipset and a Level 2 Next with Hombre.
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Old 13 January 2021, 18:03   #58
Gilbert
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Sinclair QL - Nice idea, no games.

Sinclair should've created a ZX Spectrum 2 with enhanced graphics and sound that was backwards compatible. The various iterations of the Spectrum did nothing to address the problem that the graphics and audio were being rapidly left behind by competitors.

The Spectrum should've made it to a 3rd gen revision with capabilities on par with the OCS chipset when it was retired but alas.

Just imagine a true Matt Smith coded sequel for Jet Set Willy on the Speccy 2 and a remaster of Manic Miner on the Speccy 3.
Yes I think so too. The machines that excited the users were Loki and the other two (? can't remember names) but I heard they were all internal skunkworks projects and not officially sanctioned. They should have gone with Loki just because of the level of excitement it generated among Sinclair users. No one was excited about the QL.

I guess the Sam Coupe was halfway between the 8 bits and 16 bit but it was far too expensive to succeed. Everyone paid just a little bit extra and got an Amiga instead
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Old 13 January 2021, 18:16   #59
EAUniW
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This is why the Vampire just doesn't work for me. It doesn't know what it wants to be and for what it does, it's overpriced and understocked.

The Spectrum Next is a clear evolution in a familiar housing with a plethora of good vibes behind it from developers and old school Speccy owners. It knows what it wants to be.

The Vampire SAGA mode is unsupported by current software and will not be developed for as it's a niche addition to a niche card.

The Vampire should've been a standalone product from the start with emphasis on SAGA but highlighting ABSOLUTE compatibility with OCS and AGA.

The QL was Clive wanting to be remembered not just as the man who brought us Jet Set Willy. But we all loved Jet Set Willy, and Clive was crazy, appearing in his own adverts. He was the unofficial mascot.
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Old 13 January 2021, 20:18   #60
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Well, I have to disagree with most of your points here.

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It doesn't know what it wants to be and for what it does, it's overpriced and understocked.
The Vampire wants to be an excellent 68K NG Amiga experience and you have to see the Workbench experience to believe it. Productivity is also superb, gaming (especially RTG gaming) is second to none (I have not bothered with the web capabilities).

Overpriced? Oh, you should check out the prices on X1000 etc Amigas.

Understocked? V4 has increased production and now you can get one within days from your preorder.

Quote:
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The Spectrum Next is a clear evolution in a familiar housing with a plethora of good vibes behind it from developers and old school Speccy owners. It knows what it wants to be.
My opinion is that drama from Amiga purists doesn't mean that the Vamp suffers from any lack of direction or identity. And I am not so sure that the Spectrum community is drama-free.

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The Vampire SAGA mode is unsupported by current software and will not be developed for as it's a niche addition to a niche card.
I think there are enough Vampires out there to contradict the 'niche' label. Other than that, I am also skeptical about Vampire-specific software development.

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The Vampire should've been a standalone product from the start with emphasis on SAGA but highlighting ABSOLUTE compatibility with OCS and AGA.
Well, compatibility improves all the time. I just flashed the new core yesterday and there has been a marked improvement in compatibility in classic Amiga games. And these cores are improved all the time. I don't think 040-060 are ABSOLUTELY compatible either and they had decades to improve, but don't quote me on that.

Last edited by manossg; 13 January 2021 at 20:27.
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