Legality of CoffinOS and Vampire Team

[Predseda]

Originally Posted by spudje

I agree with BippyM. However Utri007, however illegal Coffin is, apollo team is not selling it.

They may only be hosting it, but still - they risk a lot with it, at least a good reputation.

[AMike]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Again, you show me exactly where "Amiga OS files / Kickstart ROMs and commercial programs / games still for sale" are on any EAB resource!!!

You sit since many years on a very big pile of pirated copies. There is no difference between an OS or a game from Lucasfilm. If you really believe that please send Lucasfilm a letter and asking them for permission to upload their games. (and the other few hundreds copyright holders) On the other hand EAB get donations from the community and many of them are because of the good "software support". To be clear at this point - I'm completly fine with this "business" and I'm not in the position to judge this - but same counts for you, or the EAB - because you do exact the same, there is no difference.

Originally Posted by OlafSch

The community behaves in parts silly

This!

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

BTW ALB42 has removed the vampire hardware detection

And now? One friend of you less?

The community behaves in parts silly

I really couldn't care less if he block or allows Vampire / CoffinOS if I'm honest.

...but it's totally his choice to do so.

So you shouldn't have moaned like a bitch!!!

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by DamienD

...well you guys might not care.

But as mentioned; I'm sure Haage & Partners or Hyperion would, and be very interested in this discussion and what gets uncovered.

Not to mention other still active / commercial software devs when they find out that their work is being distributed for free in this CoffinOS distro...

in opposite to you I had contacts to Mr. Haage in the past (in my case regarding permissions for software) and I can assure you that he has no interest in amiga anymore, my impression was even negative feelings because of bad experience. I do not think that he is interested in getting involved anymore. That does not make distributing 3.9 legal of course.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by DamienD

I really couldn't care less if he block or allows Vampire / CoffinOS if I'm honest.


...but it's totally his choice to do so.


So you shouldn't have moaned like a bitch!!!

your wording speaks for itself

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AMike

You sit since many years on a very big pile of pirated copies. There is no difference between an OS or a game from Lucasfilm. If you really believe that please send Lucasfilm a letter and asking them for permission to upload their games. (and the other few hundreds copyright holders) On the other hand EAB get donations from the community and many of them are because of the good "software support". To be clear at this point - I'm completly fine with this "business" and I'm not in the position to judge this - but same counts for you, or the EAB - because you do exact the same, there is no difference.

Again, you show me where there are any commercial / still sold games and software!!!

This is what we are talking about with the Apollo team and distributing the following:

 
Amiga OS 3.9
FlyinHigh                    Dir ----rwed 29-Mar-20 21:25:38
CygnusEd                     Dir ----rwed 20-May-19 21:12:57
Directory "dh1:Tools/GoldED" on Monday 01-Jun-20

Originally Posted by OlafSch

your wording speaks for itself

What does mean exactly; you make no sense...

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by BippyM

The fact is, this image will only work with a vampire, and is supplied by the vampire team on their website.. Therefore, they are selling it!!

they are officially distributing CoffinOS on the website?

Where?

[BippyM]

Originally Posted by OlafSch

they are officially distributing CoffinOS on the website?

Where?

Firstly I never said officially... Secondly. Go to their forum, scroll down maybe 5-10 threads and there it is.. Not advertised, but readily available with links, and fully discussed!

[AMike]

Originally Posted by DamienD

Again, you show me where there are any commercial / still sold games and software!!!

You try to make your world more beautiful than it really is. Copyright infringement and taking donations at the same time looks not so good in front of a court. I understand that you don't want admit this to yourself - but that does not change the facts - legally no difference.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by BippyM

Firstly I never said officially... Secondly. Go to their forum, scroll down maybe 5-10 threads and there it is.. Not advertised, but readily available with links, and fully discussed!

If you look in the forums you see that I critisize CoffinOS and do not share the views some of the team members have (regarding legality of distributing "abandonware").

But I do not understand the hate some have. Was Damien personally harmed?

And regarding developing no software for vampire because of distribution of CoffinOS, it is everyones decision what he offers or not. If developer rule out thousands of potential users because they dislike CoffinOS it is their decision.

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AMike

You try to make your world more beautiful than it really is. Copyright infringement and taking donations at the same time looks not so good in front of a court. I understand that you don't want admit this to yourself - but that does not change the facts - legally no difference.

How is taking donation illegal exactly? Yes, people donate to EAB and the FTP which helps towards the running costs of both. That's people choice to do so; it's not mandatory.

A lot of software developers don't sell their software; but instead ask for donations.

This is totally different to a commercial company selling a product bundled with still sold software like "Amiga OS 3.9" (even if given away free).

[Gorf]

The Vampire/Coffin people are hypocrites:
Where is the free and open source Apollo-softcore?

It could easily run in a terasic de10 board (MiSTer), which uses the same FPGA type ... but with more LEs.

So with their own work, they are not so fond of "sharing"...

[Tigerskunk]

Being in our mid forties now, we are still those pupils swapping disks on the school's yard back in the late eighties.

My stance is, it would be cool if some pennies would be landing in the pockets of those people still actively developing something for the Amiga, even if it's only for showing some respect and a bit of an incentive to go on coding nice new things.

Don't care so much for 20 year old things to get copied where the original author doesn#t even care anymore, illegal or not.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by Gorf

The Vampire/Coffin people are hypocrites:
Where is the free and open source Apollo-softcore?

It could easily run in a terasic de10 board (MiSTer), which uses the same FPGA type ... but with more LEs.

So with their own work, they are not so fond of "sharing"...

they never promised to open everything

the 68080 core was never promised to be open sourced, just the AGA part

[AMike]

Originally Posted by DamienD

How is taking donation illegal exactly?

Because it is assumed that the more attractive the offer of a site is, the higher the donations are. Access to a large amount of software is obviously attractive and for some probably more valuable than the rest of the site's content. (no offense-I like the work of the EAB) In such cases, it will always be interpreted negatively.

[Gorf]

@Olaf
Yes: and that is their mistake!
Taking the work of others for granted, but not sharing their own work.

[OlafSch]

Originally Posted by Gorf

@Olaf
Yes: and that is their mistake!
Taking the work of others for granted, but not sharing their own work.

why did the P96 authors sell the software and not share it to the community?

It is everyones own decision what he does with his work. In case of the 68080 core 8 years of work

[DamienD]

Originally Posted by AMike

Because it is assumed that the more attractive the offer of a site is, the higher the donations are. Access to a large amount of software is obviously attractive and for some probably more valuable than the rest of the site's content. (no offense-I like the work of the EAB) In such cases, it will always be interpreted negatively.

You can check with Turran; the donations made towards the FTP are peanuts...

In fact, I'm probably the only person who has donated substantial money towards this i.e. about £300; and that was used to buy new disks etc...

Donations made to EAB go to RCK; and for the running cost / hosting of the whole Abime network.

[AMike]

Originally Posted by DamienD

You can check with Turran; the donations made towards the FTP are peanuts...

As I said - not my business and I'm fine with that. My point was that there is legally no difference and it makes no sense to point others.

[Gorf]

Same mistake there. I don’t know how much Jens payed, but probably not THAT much ... if the author would have asked for donations to buy it free, he would have gotten the same money ...

But that is totally besides the point: the problem is that the Vampire team has no respect for the work of others, but demands respect for their own creations at the same time.
This is hypocrisy.

And in addition to this it is also a very stupid business decision, to not support the excellent terasic board - in the end the vampire stand-alone is nothing more than a expensive hardware-dongle that functions as copy-protection. But has severe delivery and manufacturing problems ....
If the ultimate goal is really a ASIC version, this is clearly the wrong way, as it only limits the user base and prevents the whole project from taking off.

And a cherry on top we got Gunnar telling nonsense lies about the terasic board on the Apollo-board ("is illegal in Germany" - no Gunnar, its not)