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Old 16 September 2019, 21:24   #3381
drluking
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if you help me to use COP willingly (I've never used it)

Should I use a nullmodem cable connected to another Amiga 4000, or is it more convenient to use a terminal console from a Pegasos, Amiga One, PC ? so I already start setting up a computer for debugging
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Old 17 September 2019, 01:26   #3382
Hedeon
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If it is a not so severe crash, you can see the output on your monitor. Let's start there. So set it up to the internal graphical terminal.

I have it set up as:

COP keymap usa1 display resident nommu noemu ddt s:startup.ddt
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Old 17 September 2019, 01:55   #3383
grelbfarlk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deling View Post
Very strange I have few Amiga 4000 and I had similar problem
With stabillity k1 like drunkling maybe You have another Amigas :-)
Word word word , show US photos and movies

I have a few Amigas too and have tried the K1 in, um, most of them. I posted a lot of pictures and config outputs. If the answer isn't there then you guys have some busted Amigas, bad components or some device that we haven't tested before. I can say I've not tried an A3640 in some years with the Sonnetlib though it was tested with a Sonnet 400/1M quite a lot, A3640 w/060 yes, sure I know that works-have used that recently with Ragnarok/Rapture/Sonnet/K1, but not a plain Jane A3640, hope that isn't a Rev 3.0!
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Old 17 September 2019, 03:07   #3384
Hedeon
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Somebody wanted a photo.
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Old 20 September 2019, 11:09   #3385
Crumb
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@drluking

Have you checked if you have stable +5v? In my case I have around 4.8v and that seems to cause instability. I'm going to shorten the PSU cables or create just a PSU-Amiga cable... right now I'm using a modular ATX PSU and if I count the length of the original long PSU cable with my ATX-A4k PSU adapter (something around 30cm) it must be something around one meter. That's clearly a very bad idea and drops the voltage.


In my desktop miggy with recapped original PSU I get 4.8v. I'll try to add some extra cable to feed the PCI slots/mediator.



Try to measure +5v in the voltage regulator of your Voodoo card, it's easy to do as the pins are accesible. If you don't have something around 4.9v I guess that could be the reason of instability.
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Old 20 September 2019, 22:19   #3386
drluking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grelbfarlk View Post
On the Sonnet the RAM power supply is on 5V and the rest of the board is 3.3V. The specs state that a 7400@400MHz consumes a maximum of 11.3W. That alone is over the rating of the 3.3V@3A of the VRM on the Mediator. So you might consider modifying the Sonnet with its own VRM. Since the rest of the board, L2 cache, MPC107 and the other VRMs on the board for 2.5V, 2.2V are going to consume something as well.
I'm working a lot to have stable system ... I'll update you

About K1 and M1, could you tell me something for RAM, rest of board ... about 5V and 3.3V power supply ?

thanks
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Old 20 September 2019, 22:34   #3387
drluking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumb View Post
@drluking

Have you checked if you have stable +5v? In my case I have around 4.8v and that seems to cause instability. I'm going to shorten the PSU cables or create just a PSU-Amiga cable... right now I'm using a modular ATX PSU and if I count the length of the original long PSU cable with my ATX-A4k PSU adapter (something around 30cm) it must be something around one meter. That's clearly a very bad idea and drops the voltage.
you are right, It's a good idea, I'll shorten the length of the cables

Quote:
In my desktop miggy with recapped original PSU I get 4.8v. I'll try to add some extra cable to feed the PCI slots/mediator.
At the moment I have about (from 4,87V to 4,89V) on mediator's core logic oscillator and same as in K1 board (measured in the K1 itself)
What exact value do you have here ? and Is it stable your K1 ?

At the moment I'm injecting +3,3V directly on the K1 board.
Are you injecting +3,3V or 5V ?

Quote:
Try to measure +5v in the voltage regulator of your Voodoo card, it's easy to do as the pins are accesible. If you don't have something around 4.9v I guess that could be the reason of instability.
you are right, It's an other good idea, I'll verify it
What exact value do you have here ?
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Old 21 September 2019, 20:46   #3388
grelbfarlk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drluking View Post
I'm working a lot to have stable system ... I'll update you

About K1 and M1, could you tell me something for RAM, rest of board ... about 5V and 3.3V power supply ?

thanks

The MPC8343 @ 400MHz is about 2W. Not sure about the RAM but the K1 was something like 5W. This was measuring from the wall prior to and after the K1 was running, so it might be little inexact, lets say +-1W. From what I've seen, using a K1 with the built in VRM on the Mediator works fine, as long as the rest of the boards are 5V.
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Old 24 September 2019, 00:37   #3389
Hall80
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Hi everybody. So, about K1 (M1) card. My card is unstable at my A4K too. Many times it ends with crash of that PPC software and.....restart. I think that Killer K1(M1) is really perfect, but 64MB is not so much for "profi" or game using. Some people described - Shogo doesn not work - becouse not enough memory. But i Tried it and it was fully playable and smooth- but it crashed or may crash every where due memory issue. I tried to play it up to level 2...perfect like on PC....but there is crash for RAM alocation.
What will be the best: please give your setting and OS for us for testing of demos,games etc. It will be the best for HEDEON,ELBOX and HandP! And...please...HEDEON...describe your acount number. I thing that it is the time to send to you some (many and many)money from many of us to you for your support of the PPC...

Last edited by Hall80; 24 September 2019 at 01:01.
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Old 24 September 2019, 00:47   #3390
Hall80
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And as I described...I couldn't make it (K1) to work on my A1200 with BPPC! There is some problem with built in PPC and PCI PPC. We tried Sonnet and Ragnarok too, but it is unstable on this (my) accelerator (blizzard 603e plus). I think that Jack3D is the best man from czech reppublic who hase Ragnarok, M1,sonnet etc who hase information to help us. May be it is the time to start the testing of the PPCs with one testinstalation...from Jack3D or Hedeon..and help to them to developing
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Old 24 September 2019, 01:00   #3391
Hall80
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Many people saying..speaking etc. but we need to doing =).
So, I am here and prepared for help with testing and what you want.. I have A1200 with BPPC (i have BVision too), . Voodoo3 (4). and NET 10 or 100Mbit, SoundBlaster and USB, and many guys saw it installed at Elbox Black box in czech republic ,....and A4K with CSII SCSI with Voodoo3 and Killer K1 and NET 10 or 100Mbit and USB..
Perfect will be: one instalation of OS3.1 or 3.9 with Warpup/Waur3D etc...for testing...but from some one who hase it like stable system....and...please....sorry for my bad english.....I have more than 4 bears =)...really soorry...Stepan
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Old 24 September 2019, 02:58   #3392
grelbfarlk
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The problem with making a full distribution is that to make it easy for the end user, means for the developer to commit copyright violations. Sure, maybe a lot of people don't care about ripping off H&P for 3.9, but I think most people would not feel comfortable about 3.1.4 as it is still being developed-whether that helps anyone or not. Then we ask about WarpDatatypes, again, this is a guy that is still updating the thing, work out an unlimited license for Sonnetlib for WarpDatatypes, and then we'll talk. That's not even starting on the WarpUP versions of various games.

Could do something like ClassicWB where it installs on top of a base install, but still that's probably too complicated for many people to figure out.

Someone who lurks around here recently got a PPC card and had it up and running in about a day. Coincidentally I built up a fresh install from ClassicWB in an evening, just had to disable a couple of the components, CyberGFXpatch and TinyMeter.

A1200 would be all well and good, but keep in mind, you have to use an AHI and a PCI Sound card for even a chance at running at all, that is if your application uses sound.
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Old 27 September 2019, 00:14   #3393
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This could be option - script the installation

https://hstwb.firstrealize.com/
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Old 27 September 2019, 04:54   #3394
grelbfarlk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k0x View Post
This could be option - script the installation

https://hstwb.firstrealize.com/

Yeah but that seems to be geared towards just spitting out an image, which is really the same thing. The two things that people seem to stumble on from an OS standpoint are MMULib and maybe the Sonnetlib install. MMULib is kind of a problem while it will install and create an MMU-Configuration file, unless the PPC is already started it's not going to know about it. Maybe that could be fixed, or a debug mode for the Sonnetlib could be done, so it could be started with the memory visible but not enough to crash the system before the MMULib gets installed, something like that.

Idea #2: Start the PPC first
-Sonnetlib starts in debug mode with memory visible.
-Sonnetlib user archive contains alternate MMULib installer in the archive-with a fancy Installer script, if Thor wouldn't mind too terribly we could put a list of common MMU-Configuration lines in there.
-Installer runs pciinfo, see what's in the system, have one of those Installer prompts, do you want to CacheInhibit PCI Device: X with this command? Yes/No

Idea #3: Don't start the PPC first
-Sonnetlib user archive contains alternate MMULib installer in the archive-with a fancy Installer script, if Thor wouldn't mind too terribly we could put a list of common MMU-Configuration lines in there.
-Installer runs pciinfo, see what's in the system, have one of those Installer prompts, do you want to CacheInhibit PCI Device: X with this command? Yes/No

Idea #4: Don't start the PPC first, and GFX MMULib configurations
-Sonnetlib user archive contains alternate MMULib installer in the archive-with a fancy Installer script, if Thor wouldn't mind too terribly we could put a list of common MMU-Configuration lines in there.
-Installer runs pciinfo, see what's in the system, have one of those Installer prompts, do you want to CacheInhibit PCI Device: X with this command? Yes/No
-And the installer runs PCIINFO and says would you also like to CacheInhibit the Voodoo/Radeon space? Yes/No

Idea #5: There is no problem with the MMULib configurations
-Just supply an MMU-Configuration file that just CacheInhibits the whole PCI space. Though the ranges will change if you have Swap Jumper on?

I'm not sure what else can be done. We can't detect a lot of hardware problems with software. Other than creating more stuff in an Installer things like hey, I see you put the PPC before the video card (via looking at PCIINFO); you ran out of PCI Space, you have a Zorro device over 8000 0000, really this PPC needs to be after the VRAM space, I can't see your PCI cards or they have the wrong device IDs.

Last edited by grelbfarlk; 27 September 2019 at 05:05.
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Old 27 September 2019, 05:06   #3395
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Do any of those sound like good ideas?
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Old 27 September 2019, 11:31   #3396
Hedeon
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I wouldn't install the mmu libs after running the PPC as then the PPC RAM will set up as cached memory. If you install the mmu libs before running the PPC, the whole zorro III space of the mediator will be set up as non-cached (which is what we want). I guess that is option #5 then.

A1200 is not something I am pursuing at the moment due to a lot of headaches regarding the hardware restrictions. Maybe that will change in the future.

I was in Germany last weekend and ran the M1 for hours on end btw. Albeit 2D (ScummVM) and not 3D.

I played Q3 for hours on the Ragnarok.

This was with the stock A3000 PSU as I had blown up my modified one while connecting everything the very first minute. This also meant that I had to wait 10 minutes for everything to become stable after a cold start due to the stock PSU not being completely up to the task. But after that it ran for hours.

Getting another modified PSU soon.

Last edited by Hedeon; 27 September 2019 at 11:38.
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Old 27 September 2019, 11:35   #3397
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@grelbfarkl I’m not sure it’s worth the effort to be honest, and it’s just another thing to provide support on. The wiki could possibly do with a refresh but it already provides all the information required to get things running and is fit for purpose regarding stuff like MMU-configuration. There are so many moving parts required to work in harmony to get a stable setup I’m not sure providing a distro is necessarily going to make much difference. If a fool like me can follow the wiki instructions and see success, im sure other users who have a semblance of Amiga knowledge should be able to muddle through, especially given the wealth of information already in this massive thread.
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Old 28 September 2019, 12:23   #3398
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Vendors.txt seems to be updated today on elbox site.
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Old 28 September 2019, 12:38   #3399
deling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedeon View Post
Somebody wanted a photo.

this photo is like a big Joke !! show us quake 2 , 1 , wipeout 2097 , 1 hour play games for example :-) with killer k1 / m1
with no freeze system record your movie and sent to youtube !
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Old 28 September 2019, 12:45   #3400
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I am not going to shoot some boring movie showing the same stuff over and over for an hour. That photo shows that Warp3D had been running (through gears) for the amount of seconds shown in which the PPC program called 68k functions for a million times.
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