Details for the next generation of Flickerfixers from Individual Computers

[Eny-]

Personally I'm holding out its purchase because of these "problems". Using my miggy with a modern monitor would be great but since I only game...

[Retrofan]

You can use a modern Full HD monitor without ficker fixer. I've got an LG 26" and a Samsung 22" and both work fine with Pal High Res Laced, 680x538.

[PopoCop]

Does the latest config-tool make possible to:
1) turn off those annoying 'infos' when screen mode is changed,
2) disable flicker-fixer?

[demolition]

Originally Posted by hansel75

Either way it's messy! Also it seems the higher the res you go the smaller the gaming screen.

Yes, the Indivision is not a scaler and was never intended to be. I think the best solution for games would be to have a 4x mode like previously suggested so it could convert 320x256 into 1280x1024 which is a standard VGA mode. Then it would fill the screen perfectly.

Originally Posted by PopoCop

Does the latest config-tool make possible to:
1) turn off those annoying 'infos' when screen mode is changed,
2) disable flicker-fixer?

1. Yes.
2. No, and for what purpose?

[hansel75]

Originally Posted by Retrofan

From the first core readme:
"Hi,

here´s the long-awaited config&flashtool for Indivision AGA MK2.
Please note that this is an early beta release. Lots of things
need tweaking, and settings are still very academic.

...

NOT WORKING YET:
- VSync feature (caution: not greyed out!)
- Graffiti emulation"

And also from the Mk2 Cfg v1.1 readme-

"V-Syncing still is not implemented
- Graffiti emulation is not yet implemented
- screenmodes are not properly recognized on some systems We will continue to work on that!"

To me this reads as, these features are not implemented yet, but will be in the future!

Jens recent reply- "The product and associated config tool work as advertised."

Jens, are we going to get those features you mentioned in your readme's or not?

If not then maybe you should add some more information for your products, so people are aware of the lack of these features when buying a mk2, and are not just told about the few features that work.

Something like- 'This product does not support a 50hz pal mode, it doesn't support vsync and graffiti modes, and gaming resolutions have issues filling the screen properly.'

I'm sure there are people who don't come to forums like EAB, that buy your products based on the limited information displayed on the online amiga shops, and have no clue to these limitations of the mk2.

Then they get it home, install it into there amiga and realize that half the basic features they simply expected the MK2 to have, are not there!

That's my opinion anyway, and if that's as good as the MK2 gets, then i feel it's an overpriced piece of hardware considering the limited feature list it currently has, very disappointing

[PopoCop]

Originally Posted by demolition

2. No, and for what purpose?

Because flicker-fixer removes interlace only on static screen. But when the screen starts to move interlace is back and it looks horrible.

[demolition]

Originally Posted by PopoCop

Because flicker-fixer removes interlace only on static screen. But when the screen starts to move interlace is back and it looks horrible.

True, could be useful in some situations. Also shouldn't be complicated to implement.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by demolition

Yes, 50 Hz does not necessarily imply VSync. Reason is that the Indivision has its own clock not derived from the Amiga,

Not correct. All clocks are derived from the Amiga pixel clock, and I have even explained the reason for all the different FPGA cores here: You can read from the name of the core how the clock is multiplied/divided. There is a perfect 2x clock available, and if you create an output mode with the exact output lines and pixels, you're almost there. I just didn't take the time to do that.

Originally Posted by demolition

It would require some hardware changes though, and not just an FPGA update.

Hardware supports it, software supports it, documentation is there, and you can load/save your own settings.

About two weeks ago I was at a user meeting organized by a1k members. One of the guys asked me for help with the config tool, and all I did was two or three clicks in the tool. He was totally surprised to see the drop-down menus. Do I have to include an Amiga workbench tutorial with all products?

Jens

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by hansel75

To me this reads as, these features are not implemented yet, but will be in the future!

Jens recent reply- "The product and associated config tool work as advertised."

Jens, are we going to get those features you mentioned in your readme's or not?

You're mixing two things: Advertised features and future things that I'm planning. AFAIK, no reseller and no product description that I have sent out contain Graffiti emulation and/or VSynced output as a guaranteed feature. Just because it's possible and just because I've put it on my personal wishlist does not mean that it is part of what you have bought at the time you've bought the flickerfixer.

You should only buy a product for what it is right now, not for what you think it may become in the future.

Originally Posted by hansel75

If not then maybe you should add some more information for your products, so people are aware of the lack of these features when buying a mk2, and are not just told about the few features that work.

The list of things it does NOT is long. It is not a coffee machine. It does not play MP3. It does not speed up WB operation. It does not increase chipram size (yes, I've had that complaint!). Got the idea?

Originally Posted by hansel75

Something like- 'This product does not support a 50hz pal mode, it doesn't support vsync and graffiti modes, and gaming resolutions have issues filling the screen properly.'

Negative. The config tool gives you all the freedom to generate full-screen gaming modes and to generate 50Hz output. The sentence "it does not do what I have never advertised" is implied. Find me a judge who requires me to add that sentence, and I'll do it, but it's far from any logic to express that it's not doing what I didn't say it'll do. Besides, if you're only taking your information from the readme, you already have that information. What more are you asking for?

Originally Posted by hansel75

I'm sure there are people who don't come to forums like EAB, that buy your products based on the limited information displayed on the online amiga shops, and have no clue to these limitations of the mk2.

What you call a limitation is actually an outstanding feature of the product: It generates a standard screen displayable on most (if not all) monitors without the need for tweaking. Those nasty "can't display this mode" messages are gone, and that's what people want. If you want more, use the config tool.

Originally Posted by hansel75

Then they get it home, install it into there amiga and realize that half the basic features they simply expected the MK2 to have, are not there!

That's my opinion anyway, and if that's as good as the MK2 gets, then i feel it's an overpriced piece of hardware considering the limited feature list it currently has, very disappointing

Your current disappointment is caused by an expectation that I haven't triggered with any advert. I might satisfy your requests anyway in the future - it's just not a guaranteed property of the product.

Jens

[demolition]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Not correct. All clocks are derived from the Amiga pixel clock, and I have even explained the reason for all the different FPGA cores here: You can read from the name of the core how the clock is multiplied/divided. There is a perfect 2x clock available, and if you create an output mode with the exact output lines and pixels, you're almost there. I just didn't take the time to do that.

Ah, I thought the multiply/divide was from an onboard oscillator, but that is indeed good news. Then it should indeed be possible to create a 50 Hz VSync mode as it is, although it wouldn't be usable with many monitors. My own Dell can show it through VGA (not DVI), but resamples it to 60 Hz anyway, so not much gained.

The optimal solution for gaming would be for you to create a LightBoost 100 Hz VSynced mode.

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

About two weeks ago I was at a user meeting organized by a1k members. One of the guys asked me for help with the config tool, and all I did was two or three clicks in the tool. He was totally surprised to see the drop-down menus. Do I have to include an Amiga workbench tutorial with all products?

I'm pretty sure I've been through all the menus, but you can't expect the average user to learn the tool 100%. It is quite technical after all.

[Retrofan]

I suposse I could have the 800x600 mode of the first core but using the config tool of the last, but don't know how to archieve that.

[NovaCoder]

Jens,

We always want more, that's human nature and with an FPGA design it's actually possible

Personally I think the Indy Mrk2 is already a great upgrade which I'd recommend to everyone.

Things I'd like to see supported in the future:

1) SuperPlus Mode identified as a distinct mode so that it can be configured properly
2) 50Hz support
3) Graffiti (enhanced!)
4) Vsync (if possible)

[Mr B]

While everyone else is asking for more and more features, i feel like i'm alone... But i'd say it anyway. I actually wish we had a more userfriendly interface. I want to be able to boot of a floppy to play a game, and run WHDloads straight out of a bogstandard Amiga setup.
If the configuration software had a "basic user" interface, where you'd select preferred activity types, and preferred output, and then it did the magic in the back, fixing all the settings making it "just works, like magic" simple, then i'd be as happy as ever. Right now i honestly feel slightly let down, and as such haven't even tested the software. Yeah. Still. I HAVE to get to it, but what i'm getting at is that for what ever reason we are expected to have a lot more knowledge about screenmodes and god knows what then, quite frankly, i have. I sure hpe i turn out to be one of the lucky ones that just have it all working once it gets to play with the new software, without any user input, or i'll simply be lost.

[Schoenfeld]

Originally Posted by Mr B

If the configuration software had a "basic user" interface, where you'd select preferred activity types, and preferred output, and then it did the magic in the back, fixing all the settings making it "just works, like magic" simple, then i'd be as happy as ever.

That's what it is: Choose source mode, choose target mode, save, done. You only need knowledge about "screenmodes" if you want to generate your own output type which is not a Vesa type - since that would be exactly what the unexperienced user would see as "can't display screenmode", it's not in the standard screenmodes.

Download the latest config tool, the V2.6 cores, install them, start the tool, choose "reflash all" from the drop-down menu and you have the standard config that every unit is currently shipped with. Works with all monitors I've tried and displays the overscan area of game screens as well.

Jens

[hansel75]

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

The list of things it does NOT is long. It is not a coffee machine. It does not play MP3. It does not speed up WB operation. It does not increase chipram size (yes, I've had that complaint!). Got the idea?

Considering i only mentioned sensible features that are 'most likely possible' on the mk2, and not ridiculous things like mp3, chipram etc.

I can't see any reason not to include that information on the amiga shops for your products.

Wouldn't that be fair to include all the information and the status of what your product can do in regards to it's video output capabilities?
So people know that there are limitations at the moment!

Originally Posted by Schoenfeld

Negative. The config tool gives you all the freedom to generate full-screen gaming modes and to generate 50Hz output.
Jens

Well i am yet to get a proper gaming resolution setup that fills the screen properly, what resolution do you use to achieve that Jens?

640x480 cuts off part of the screen, and 800x600 has borders, what resolution should i use that will fill the screen fully in gaming? I have tried some odd resolutions but they did not display.

And Jens are you saying it is possible to get a perfect 50hz pal mode? Could you please let me know what settings to try.

As i haven't had any luck getting a 50hz mode to work, and to be honest i don't think anyone else here has either going by all the requests for it, Jens how did you get your 50hz mode working, as you have achieved something that most of us haven't?

I'm really looking forward to some 50hz full screen gaming now that i know it's somehow possible

[jPV]

I'd really want that 4x pixels mode (320x256 -> 1280x1024) for games without overscan, how about it Jens, please?

And I'd also appreciate that vsync mode as I have monitor capable to it and I also use it a lot on different events with video projectors which can show 50Hz.

That's all I really want, otherwise it's a great product.

[NovaCoder]

I was playing around with some test code the other night and it's possible to make a game use the full screen.

It's nothing clever, Amiga OS lets you open a bigger screen (overscan) so you simply open a slightly bigger screen in PAL mode and it will be full screen with the Indivision. The only problem of course is that there is a slight performance hit because you're pushing more pixels around.

[Mr B]

For me, thats only going to be a performance issue when i run what... Frontier Elite. But how do you make this all happen with WHDLoads? I assume it's harder to make it so for bootable floppie games.

[NovaCoder]

Originally Posted by Mr B

For me, thats only going to be a performance issue when i run what... Frontier Elite. But how do you make this all happen with WHDLoads? I assume it's harder to make it so for bootable floppie games.

You could only get it to work for 'OS friendly' games, most WHDLOAD games bang the hardware directly so it wouldn't work.

I might try and update one of my ports to support it if I get the time.

[Mr B]

Ah, so like the floppies, your "stuck with" what ever you got to start with. Thanks for clarifying that.