and with a familiar "crack", my 4000 died - HELP!

chiark · 22 January 2008, 22:43

Well, I'd just got my 4000 working nicely. Backed up all the data onto another drive, transferred that into WinUAE, and was enjoying hacking around using the 4000 which is pretty much what I wanted it to be finally - AmigaOS 3.9, scandoubler, piccolo SD64, xsurf2, ...

I move the machine, there's an electrical "fut" noise, a familiar whiff of unhappy electronics, and the machine freezes.

Power down, fearing the worst.

Power up: fans and drives spin, screen stays resolutely black.

I've checked the voltage from the PSU, and it's all as it should be. I've stripped it down to bare minimum (CPU, expansion riser, memory), and there's no obvious shorts under the machine.

Still nothing.

To say I'm gutted would be an understatement. I was just about to send the board off to Anthony Hoffman for him to fix the audio side of things, however I just don't know what's wrong with the machine now - it could be the warp engine I suppose, or the PSU.

Is anyone near Leeds, England with a CPU card of any sort that I could try or who could try the WarpEngine to see if that's the culprit? Once I've eliminated that, I'd be happy to send the board to Anthony for him to sort out but I'd like to know that it is only the motherboard at fault.

What with this and the dead 3000, I'm really rather unchuffed with Commodore

alexh · 22 January 2008, 22:55

Do you not have an emergency A3640?

chiark · 22 January 2008, 23:20

Nope, when I bought the machine of my friend (back in 1995), he only had the warp engine - he upgraded when he bought the machine.

There's one on the bay on fleas that I'm watching. Please, no snipers!

The only thing I can see that looks like damage is a faint discolouring on the NCR (SCSI) chip on the warp engine. However, there's one on ebay at the moment which has the same mark in the same place, so I'm guessing that it could be an "ok to go" pen mark.

Even a 3630 would do...

Merlin · 23 January 2008, 20:29

Check the capacitors near the power connection for raised domes, burn marks and evidence of failure, it's the most likely reason it's died. A blown cap should be fairly easy to spot.

"Ticking" or "fut" noises is the sound of voltage tracking to earth so my money's on a dead cap.

Good hunting.

M

chiark · 23 January 2008, 23:04

Thanks for the encouragement! I've been over the thing and can't see any dodgy caps, unfortunately. Although being fair, I know that the audio caps have leaked and they don't look warped or similar.

There's no ticking or fut, there was just a single "crack" that sounded like a short, and the machine hung. Even stripped to bare bones, I don't get anything other than a black screen.

chiark · 23 January 2008, 23:07

BTW, I get a white screen if I turn the thing on with no CPU card in it... Don't know if that means anything or not!

chiark · 23 January 2008, 23:21

Hmm. Just tried again after cleaning everything out. I get colours on the screen now - turn on sometimes and it'll go white to green. Or white to yellow.

Or salmon to pink. Or yellow to green. Basically, pick two colours, and that's what I get.

Truly weird, and not really what I expected. Damn.

chiark · 02 February 2008, 22:31

Well, there's an ending to this.

I got an ATX PSU adaptor from AmigaKit... No difference, still dead.

I got a 3640 from BinOx (thanks again). Works fine.

My warpengine is dead

- that is *such* a fecker

I've got a theory as to what happened: I was using a SCSI cable that ended in pins, allowing an extension to be plugged in... The crack must have been something shorting in there, that's all I can think of, and it's killed the bastid warpengine.

So part of me is thinking "Great", and the other bit of me is thinking "bollocks!"

Anyone know anyone who can repair warpengines?

chiark · 06 February 2008, 22:17

Bit of an update - not much, but bit of one...

I've bought a replacement 68040 chip running at 33MHz. It came with a crystal, but the WarpEngine uses 8 pin DIL style crystals, not 14 pin, and the chip came with a 14 pin (sod's law).

I butchered a spare 14 pin DIL socket to make a 14-8 pin converter and gave it a shot.

Nothing. And the attached IDE drive wouldn't spin up either - it just made a squelch noise when power was turned off. Weird.

Checked my adaptor thing and one of the patent pending bits of it had not made a proper connection

- resoldered and tried again.

Still no boot, however the IDE will spin up.

Turns out that with no crystal in, the WarpEngine stops the internal IDE spinning up. With it in, it'll let it spin up.

Suggests that it's getting as far as trying to talk between the buses? Who knows... Still not really any closer to working out what's wrong with the warpengine!

Merlin · 06 February 2008, 23:07

Erm,

Di-lithium crystals, broken?

"She hasna got the power Cap'n...."

Sorry, I couldn't resist.....LOL

Merlin

chiark · 06 February 2008, 23:09

Yeah, thanks for that

The other thing almost worth noting is that IDE stopped working just before the machine died... I'm starting to think that these things may be linked

(Well, at least I'm not talking to myself

)

Merlin · 06 February 2008, 23:22

@ Chiark

Have you checked the 5v and 12v power rails? A partial boot may indicate that one of the power rails is down. I would follow the power rails from the IDE port back and see if there's a blown cap or resistor on the power lines.

My post above had a message behind the joke... maybe she really hasn't got enough power getting through.

M

chiark · 06 February 2008, 23:32

yeah, that was my first thought (well, hope!) too which is why I've tried it with the original PSU, and also with 3 ATX PSUs, including a 500W enermax beastie. Even tried different IDE drives. And on a whim, changed the processor fan in case that was knackering things!

All no beans.

And the power always stays constant at near 12v and 5v. no sagging or things like that. unfortunately.

Hmm, I'll check the power pins on the CPU connector... Perhaps the warpengine uses individual pins for different parts of the circuit...

chiark · 06 February 2008, 23:34

the other thing to note is that everything, including the IDE, works fine with the 3640 in...

22 January 2008, 22:43	#1
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	and with a familiar "crack", my 4000 died - HELP! Well, I'd just got my 4000 working nicely. Backed up all the data onto another drive, transferred that into WinUAE, and was enjoying hacking around using the 4000 which is pretty much what I wanted it to be finally - AmigaOS 3.9, scandoubler, piccolo SD64, xsurf2, ... I move the machine, there's an electrical "fut" noise, a familiar whiff of unhappy electronics, and the machine freezes. Power down, fearing the worst. Power up: fans and drives spin, screen stays resolutely black. I've checked the voltage from the PSU, and it's all as it should be. I've stripped it down to bare minimum (CPU, expansion riser, memory), and there's no obvious shorts under the machine. Still nothing. To say I'm gutted would be an understatement. I was just about to send the board off to Anthony Hoffman for him to fix the audio side of things, however I just don't know what's wrong with the machine now - it could be the warp engine I suppose, or the PSU. Is anyone near Leeds, England with a CPU card of any sort that I could try or who could try the WarpEngine to see if that's the culprit? Once I've eliminated that, I'd be happy to send the board to Anthony for him to sort out but I'd like to know that it is only the motherboard at fault. What with this and the dead 3000, I'm really rather unchuffed with Commodore

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22 January 2008, 22:55	#2
alexh Thalion Webshrine Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oxford Posts: 14,356	Do you not have an emergency A3640?

22 January 2008, 23:20	#3
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Nope, when I bought the machine of my friend (back in 1995), he only had the warp engine - he upgraded when he bought the machine. There's one on the bay on fleas that I'm watching. Please, no snipers! The only thing I can see that looks like damage is a faint discolouring on the NCR (SCSI) chip on the warp engine. However, there's one on ebay at the moment which has the same mark in the same place, so I'm guessing that it could be an "ok to go" pen mark. Even a 3630 would do...

23 January 2008, 20:29	#4
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	Check the capacitors near the power connection for raised domes, burn marks and evidence of failure, it's the most likely reason it's died. A blown cap should be fairly easy to spot. "Ticking" or "fut" noises is the sound of voltage tracking to earth so my money's on a dead cap. Good hunting. M

23 January 2008, 23:04	#5
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Thanks for the encouragement! I've been over the thing and can't see any dodgy caps, unfortunately. Although being fair, I know that the audio caps have leaked and they don't look warped or similar. There's no ticking or fut, there was just a single "crack" that sounded like a short, and the machine hung. Even stripped to bare bones, I don't get anything other than a black screen.

23 January 2008, 23:07	#6
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	BTW, I get a white screen if I turn the thing on with no CPU card in it... Don't know if that means anything or not!

23 January 2008, 23:21	#7
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Hmm. Just tried again after cleaning everything out. I get colours on the screen now - turn on sometimes and it'll go white to green. Or white to yellow. Or salmon to pink. Or yellow to green. Basically, pick two colours, and that's what I get. Truly weird, and not really what I expected. Damn.

02 February 2008, 22:31	#8
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Well, there's an ending to this. I got an ATX PSU adaptor from AmigaKit... No difference, still dead. I got a 3640 from BinOx (thanks again). Works fine. My warpengine is dead - that is such a fecker I've got a theory as to what happened: I was using a SCSI cable that ended in pins, allowing an extension to be plugged in... The crack must have been something shorting in there, that's all I can think of, and it's killed the bastid warpengine. So part of me is thinking "Great", and the other bit of me is thinking "bollocks!" Anyone know anyone who can repair warpengines?

06 February 2008, 22:17	#9
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Bit of an update - not much, but bit of one... I've bought a replacement 68040 chip running at 33MHz. It came with a crystal, but the WarpEngine uses 8 pin DIL style crystals, not 14 pin, and the chip came with a 14 pin (sod's law). I butchered a spare 14 pin DIL socket to make a 14-8 pin converter and gave it a shot. Nothing. And the attached IDE drive wouldn't spin up either - it just made a squelch noise when power was turned off. Weird. Checked my adaptor thing and one of the patent pending bits of it had not made a proper connection - resoldered and tried again. Still no boot, however the IDE will spin up. Turns out that with no crystal in, the WarpEngine stops the internal IDE spinning up. With it in, it'll let it spin up. Suggests that it's getting as far as trying to talk between the buses? Who knows... Still not really any closer to working out what's wrong with the warpengine!

06 February 2008, 23:07	#10
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	Erm, Di-lithium crystals, broken? "She hasna got the power Cap'n...." Sorry, I couldn't resist.....LOL Merlin

06 February 2008, 23:09	#11
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	Yeah, thanks for that The other thing almost worth noting is that IDE stopped working just before the machine died... I'm starting to think that these things may be linked (Well, at least I'm not talking to myself )

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

06 February 2008, 23:22	#12
Merlin AmiBay MegaMod Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Age: 62 Posts: 1,163	@ Chiark Have you checked the 5v and 12v power rails? A partial boot may indicate that one of the power rails is down. I would follow the power rails from the IDE port back and see if there's a blown cap or resistor on the power lines. My post above had a message behind the joke... maybe she really hasn't got enough power getting through. M

06 February 2008, 23:32	#13
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	yeah, that was my first thought (well, hope!) too which is why I've tried it with the original PSU, and also with 3 ATX PSUs, including a 500W enermax beastie. Even tried different IDE drives. And on a whim, changed the processor fan in case that was knackering things! All no beans. And the power always stays constant at near 12v and 5v. no sagging or things like that. unfortunately. Hmm, I'll check the power pins on the CPU connector... Perhaps the warpengine uses individual pins for different parts of the circuit...

06 February 2008, 23:34	#14
chiark Needs a life Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: England Posts: 1,707	the other thing to note is that everything, including the IDE, works fine with the 3640 in...