A-Max disks?

[Supamax]

Yeee-haaaaa! We're back in the thread, testing & trying and brainstorming

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Supamax

Yeee-haaaaa! We're back in the thread, testing & trying and brainstorming

Yes, it feels good, doesn't it?

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by prowler

Yes, it feels good, doesn't it?

Yes ... if only it could take us to success with those "damned" A-Max-related problems

[Supamax]

@ prowler

it seems to me that you only tried my dump of the Italian System disk (but I could be wrong).

Could you try to:
- boot your Mac emulation with your System disk (the one you normally use, which works with your Mac emulator)
- strip the 16-bytes header from my other dumps (Excel, FileMaker Plus, Word and Switcher)
- try those "normalized" images

and let me know? If you have problems with them, too, then the issue is not related to the Italian System disk alone...

P.S. do you need me to re-upload them to The Zone?

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Supamax

Yes ... if only it could take us to success with those "damned" A-Max-related problems

This thread is so problematic, I think we've got enough to keep us going for a good while yet. Those A-Max disks sent to me by Cosmic are infuriating. I've spent so much time on them, generated a lot of files and notes, but I feel like I've got nowhere with them yet.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by prowler

This thread is so problematic, I think we've got enough to keep us going for a good while yet. Those A-Max disks sent to me by Cosmic are infuriating. I've spent so much time on them, generated a lot of files and notes, but I feel like I've got nowhere with them yet.

It's a pity they are so ruined... but the reason lies probably in the fact that they were badly copied with a nibbler copier.

Another pity is... why are we the only 2-3 guys with A-Max disks?
Nobody with 200-300 A-Max floppies hanging around???????

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Supamax

... why are we the only 2-3 guys with A-Max disks?
Nobody with 200-300 A-Max floppies hanging around???????

I think the anser must be that everyone else has moved on.

For an example of this, have a look at this post by alexh (in connection with Macintosh emulators on the Amiga):
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=543718&postcount=32

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by prowler

I think the anser must be that everyone else has moved on.

For an example of this, have a look at this post by alexh (in connection with Macintosh emulators on the Amiga):
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=543718&postcount=32

Like a Metallica's song title: "Sad but true"

[prowler]

@cosmicfrog:

There is one difference between the MacPlaymate I've uploaded and the version on your A-Max disks. This one has sound.

prowler

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Supamax

@ prowler

it seems to me that you only tried my dump of the Italian System disk (but I could be wrong).

Could you try to:
- boot your Mac emulation with your System disk (the one you normally use, which works with your Mac emulator)
- strip the 16-bytes header from my other dumps (Excel, FileMaker Plus, Word and Switcher)
- try those "normalized" images

and let me know? If you have problems with them, too, then the issue is not related to the Italian System disk alone...

P.S. do you need me to re-upload them to The Zone?

I have previously tried everything you are suggesting here in just the way you have described it. I am sure that I posted my findings earlier in the thread, but I only had a problem with the System disk, which I could not use to boot the emulator.

When using another System disk to boot the emulator, I could mount the Italian System disk in another emulated drive, the same as all the others. The only problem I had with it was that the mouse froze the instant the desktop appeared when booting it.

I still have all your disk images and the "normalized" versions of them.

[Supamax]

Hi Peter,

do you mean that my other images worked?
Do you confirm you could run Excel, Word etc. ???

Are you 100% sure? If so, then the 16-byte "trick" is confirmed valid, and you would be right about the vMac bug... even if it's strange that it boots other System disks and not mine

Massimo
P.S. if you're not 100% sure about my other images, could you kindly re-check them on vMac (especially Excel, which can be problematic) ?

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Supamax

Hi Peter,

do you mean that my other images worked?
Do you confirm you could run Excel, Word etc. ???

Are you 100% sure? If so, then the 16-byte "trick" is confirmed valid, and you would be right about the vMac bug... even if it's strange that it boots other System disks and not mine

Massimo
P.S. if you're not 100% sure about my other images, could you kindly re-check them on vMac (especially Excel, which can be problematic) ?

Thanks for this new information. I hadn't realized they could be problematic, so I didn't actually try running the programs. When I tested the images before, you had already discovered the addition of the 16-byte header to make them compatible with the A-Max emulation, and I thought it was a forgone conclusion that the images would be correctly restored if the header were removed, so that it would be unnecessary to actually test the programs if the disk images could be mounted properly.

In view of what you've just told me, I think it might be wise to try them again in Mini vMac emulation and try running them all this time.

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by prowler

In view of what you've just told me, I think it might be wise to try them again in Mini vMac emulation and try running them all this time.

Ok, then I'm sincerely wishing you good luck (hoping they will work but fearing they won't... NO! Must be optimistic!)

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Supamax

Ok, then I'm sincerely wishing you good luck (hoping they will work but fearing they won't... NO! Must be optimistic!)

Thanks!

BTW, are there any Italian System disk images for comparison on this site:
http://nbbemulation.free.fr/forum_macintosh ?

[Supamax]

Originally Posted by prowler

are there any Italian System disk images for comparison on this site:
http://nbbemulation.free.fr/forum_macintosh ?

If there are, I don't see them

[prowler]

Originally Posted by Supamax

If there are, I don't see them

OK, thanks. I just thought that if there were, you would spot them quicker than me.

Wouldn't it have been great if there had been an Italian Macintosh System disk image there to match your A-Max image ?

[prowler]

Hi Supamax,

I started retesting your Italian disk images this evening using Mini vMac Plus 2.7.1 4MB build for Windows, booting with a Macintosh Plus (Loud Harmonicas) ROM image and 1.4MB System Startup 6.0.8 disk image.

Excel/FileMaker disk

Volume name is 'A.M.C. SOFT', 747K in disk, 39K available. Contains two folders - 'excel' and 'FileMaker'.

The excel folder contains the Microsoft Excel 1.02 application and two Excel documents - 'Excel.Aiuto' and 'Recupera Excel'. The Excel aplication runs without a problem and the two documents launch the application, opening within it when double-clicked.

The FileMaker folder contains the FileMaker Plus 2.1 application and a FileMaker Plus 2.1 document - 'Etichette'. Again, the FileMaker application runs without a problem and the document launches the application, opening within it when double-clicked.

Word1/Switcher disk

Volume name is 'A.M.C. SOFT', 580K in disk, 206K available. Contains the Microsoft Word 3.01b and Switcher 5.1 applications, one document - 'Word Aiuto', three Word Aiuto documents - 'Dizionario Utente 1', 'Word Sillabazione' and 'Glossario Normale', and two folders - 'Documenti Campioni' and 'Gruppo Switcher'. The Microsoft Word application runs without a problem, but double-clicking any of the documents brings up the system error message "The file could not be opened/printed (the application is busy or missing)".

The Switcher 5.1 application opens a window entitled 'Applicazioni Installate' when double-clicked. The window contains eight instances of a panel with a SimpleText document icon and the message "Con un dopio clic lanci una applicazione...". I'm guessing this means "Launch an application with a double-click...".

Double-clicking one of these icons brings up a requester for an application, and in this case Microsoft Word is available for selection.

The Switcher application can bne closed by closing the Installed Applications window, but attempting to choose any other task from the menu instead brings up the fatal error message "Sorry, a sytem error occurred. Unimplemented trap", necessitating a restart! The emulator doesn't allow a restart in these circumstances and will respond with the error message "Abnormal Situation. The emulated machine is attempting an operation that wasn't expected to happen in normal use.", and the emulation hangs.

I would guess that this error condition is a consequence of having no Switcher applications installed, rather than a disk image error.

The Documenti Campioni folder contains five Word Aiuto documents - 'ARTICOLO', 'BILANCIO MENSILE', 'RELAZIONE', 'Memorandum' and 'MEMO'. Again, double-clicking any of the documents brings up the system error message "The file could not be opened/printed (the application is busy or missing)". Microsoft Word appears to require installation to put an end to this error message, but there is no indication of how this is to be done.

The Gruppo Switcher folder contains one Excel document - 'QuickSwitch' and five Switcher 5.1 documents - 'Word/Draw', 'Word/Excel', 'Word/File', 'Word/Paint' and 'Word/Works'. Double-clicking the QuickSwitch document brings up the system error message "The file could not be opened/printed (the application is busy or missing)" unless the Excel/FileMaker disk is also mounted, in which case the document is opened within the Microsoft Excel application!

Double-clicking the Word/Draw document launches the Microsoft Word and Switcher applications and installs Microsoft Word as the first Switcher application. Then the error message "Il file 'Microsoft Draw' non è stato trovato!" appears. Clicking 'OK' clears it. When Switcher is closed, it leaves a document entitled 'Senza Titolo 1' open in Microsoft Word. The document can be closed, but attempting to close the application brings up the fatal error message "Sorry a system error occurred. Coprocessor not installed", and the emulation must be restarted! A similar situation results from double-clicking any of the Switcher documents, except Word/Excel, which still gives the eror message aboout Microsoft Excel not being found (even if the Excel/FileMaker disk is mounted), but does not attempt to open or install Microsoft Word, so that closing the Switcher application brings back the Macintosh desktop!

Word2 disk

Volume name is 'A.M.C. SOFT', 314K in disk, 471K available. Contains the Word Aiuto document 'Dizionario Principale'. Double-clicking this document again brings up the system error message "The file could not be opened/printed (the application is busy or missing)".

I would say that the Microsoft Excel 1.02 application has been the least troublesome of the lot!

Do you have any thoughts on what I have found so far? Does this come close to your own experience with these disks under A-Max emulation?

I shall be reporting on the SystemIT disk test tomorrow. There's too much testing to do on that disk to get it all done tonight.

prowler

[Supamax]

Hi prowler,

my God, when you talk about tests you really mean tests.

I have to check with my A600 and A-Max, because I can't remember right now all these informations (error messages etc.).

But, hey, the fact you can read the images and launch the programs is very positive! Then perhaps there's hope... perhaps stripping those 16 bytes is enough!

If my tests will confirm the error messages / warnings you got with my dumps, we could assume that the issue related to the Italian System disk is indeed due to a vMac bug...

OK, time to do my tests...

[Supamax]

Hi prowler,

Ok, I did my homework tonight . I used:
- my basic A600
- external 3.5" drive attached
- A-Max II
- my physical A-Max floppies (I will also use my dumps. See at the end of this post)

During the tests I kept the (Italian) System disk in DF0 and the current (under test) floppy in DF1.
You can read the results below:

Originally Posted by prowler

Excel/FileMaker disk

Here I got the same results as you .

Word1/Switcher disk

The Microsoft Word application runs without a problem, but double-clicking any of the documents brings up the system error message "The file could not be opened/printed (the application is busy or missing)".

Here I have different results:

- double clicking "Word Sillabazione" (= Word Syllabation), Word loads and I get an opened new document "Senza Titolo1" (= Untitled1)

- same result by double clicking "Dizionario Utente 1" (= User Dictionary 1) and "Glossario Normale" (= Normal Glossary). NOTE: since I (obviously) kept my floppies write-protected, when I exit Word it asks me either to write-enable the disk to save changes for example to Glossary etc., or simply gives out a "disk write-protected" error

- double clicking "Word Aiuto" (= Word Help), Word loads and I see an open help window with many nice clickable helping hints

- the folder "Documenti Campioni" (= Sample Documents) includes the 5 sample files you mentioned (ARTICOLO, BILANCIO MENSILE, RELAZIONE, Memorandum, MEMO), but I can load all of them (double clicking on them opens Word and then the document).

The Switcher 5.1 application opens a window entitled 'Applicazioni Installate' when double-clicked. The window contains eight instances of a panel with a SimpleText document icon and the message "Con un dopio clic lanci una applicazione...". I'm guessing this means "Launch an application with a double-click...".
Double-clicking one of these icons brings up a requester for an application, and in this case Microsoft Word is available for selection.

Same result for me, and yes you're right about the translation!

attempting to choose any other task from the menu instead brings up the fatal error message "Sorry, a sytem error occurred. Unimplemented trap", necessitating a restart! The emulator doesn't allow a restart in these circumstances and will respond with the error message "Abnormal Situation. The emulated machine is attempting an operation that wasn't expected to happen in normal use.", and the emulation hangs.

No, I don't have any problem here. I can select any task from the Switcher menu, load an application, quit it, continue using the system etc.
Absolutely no problem!

The Gruppo Switcher folder contains [...]

Double-clicking the Word/Draw document launches the Microsoft Word [...] Clicking 'OK' clears it. When Switcher is closed, it leaves a document entitled 'Senza Titolo 1' open in Microsoft Word. The document can be closed, but attempting to close the application brings up the fatal error message "Sorry a system error occurred. Coprocessor not installed", and the emulation must be restarted!

Again, I followed your steps here but I got no messages or crashes...

Word2 disk

I thought unnecessary for now to test this one. If needed I'll do it, but it wouldn't add much to what I found with the previous disk, I fear...

I shall be reporting on the SystemIT disk test tomorrow.

No, wait... I now saw that my floppies are OK but I have to exclude problems in my images, just to be 200% sure.

Tomorrow (or should I say today, since it's 03:22 am ) I'll produce custom/extended ADF's (a tricky task, damn!) from my previous dumps and then I'll try them in WinUAE, to see if I get the same behaviour (*).
If so (and I'll upload some screenshots, primarily of the System disk), then the problem has to be due to Mini vMac and we'll have to try another emulator (there must be one working with my System disk! ).

(*) Of course I will upload these images to The Zone, for the joy of other users

HINT: Could it be the ROM you are using?
Did you try the ROM from the A-Max II disk (the adf I uploaded to The Zone some time ago) ?

EDIT: mmm, no, I can't find the ROM in the A-Max II floppy (nor in the A-Max 1990 version). It was "embedded" by the cracker in the file A-MaxStartup.
EDIT#2: I found a 128 KB ROM file in the A-Max Updates disk, but it's identical to the one from this website: http://rolli.ch/MacPlus/
(apart from a few header bytes and some bunch of bytes at the end).

So, if you're using this ROM, my conclusion is that it's not the culprit

[Supamax]

Hi prowler,

is there a simple/automatic way (not file-by-file) to convert a 400KB Mac disk image to an 800KB one?

I don't think that the Emplant Converter can handle 400KB images... but I'll check it