IBM licensed the Amiga GUI from Commodore in exchange for the REXX language license.

kolla · 23 July 2018, 14:49

According to spin doctors who keep editing Wikipedia.

roondar · 23 July 2018, 14:57

Well, I can't find those (undone) edits you refer to in the Wikipedia history pages for either Rexx or ARexx, nor do either of these pages mention this sooooo... Where did you get this idea?

In fact.. Googling IBM Rexx Licensed Amiga... Finds your post as the first hit.

Edit: digging a bit deeper, I did find a mention of an Commodore - IBM licensing deal where Commodore licensed Rexx from IBM (and it's presumed to have been in exchange for Amiga OS 2.0 GUI stuff, but not known for sure). This info comes from the OS/2 Warp History BBS - via a Wikipedia reference on the OS/2 page (see https://web.archive.org/web/20130127...s/OS2Warp.html).

kolla · 23 July 2018, 16:06

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga#...rating_systems

roondar · 23 July 2018, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolla

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga#...rating_systems

Which refers to the same OS/2 Warp BBS source, which does in fact imply this.

Now, I'm not saying that this is therefore what happened (the people over at OS/2 Warp BBS could've been wrong) but let's quote the source and see how people editing Wikipedia could've possible come to this position of there being a CBM-IBM deal.

(source of this Wikipedia reference is: https://web.archive.org/web/20121020...s/OS2Warp.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OS/2 Warp BBS i.e. the article sited as the source

With Microsoft no longer doing development on the user interface, IBM was faced with creating this themselves. In this timeframe, a deal was made with Commodore. Commodore licensed IBM's REXX scripting language for inclusion in their AmigaOS, and IBM took many GUI design ideas from the AmigaOS for their new GUI.

Emphasis mine, of course.

Again, why would an IBM OS/2 Warp News site say this exactly?

Is it a) because the people writing about IBM OS/2 Warp where staunch Amiga supporters who liked to lie, or b) because the people who wrote this piece of news where in fact trying to report the truth as they knew it.

I'm guessing it's b) and it sounds legit to me (especially if you read the entire article). It certainly doesn't sound like Amiga fanboys making stuff up.

meynaf · 23 July 2018, 16:46

This fact is known since long, even though sources talking about it become more and more scarce (and i couldn't find one).
IBM's Rexx became Amiga's ARexx, and Commodore's GUI became IBM's Workplace Shell.

kolla · 23 July 2018, 16:55

So IBM got to port Intuition? And what was William Hawes role in this IBM/CBM trade?

roondar · 23 July 2018, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolla

So IBM got to port Intuition? And what was William Hawes role in this IBM/CBM trade?

They got to use the Amiga OS 2.0 look and feel. They obviously didn't port intuition.

As for William Hawes, well it was his port of Rexx they used (ARexx).

I'm assuming that IBM felt Commodore needed a license to use Rexx under Amiga OS 2.0 regardless of who ported it, Commodore agreed and thus the license deal was born.

Sounds plausible enough to me considering that Rexx (and any trademarks etc to it) was owned by IBM at the time. These kind of deals are rather common.

Daedalus · 23 July 2018, 19:41

ARexx predates OS2 by a couple of years. It was originally ported as a separate product to run under 1.3, and only later bundled with OS2 as a semi-replacement for AmigaBASIC.

Edit: For clarity, when I said OS2, I meant Amiga OS 2, not OS/2

nogginthenog · 23 July 2018, 19:57

OS/2 looks nothing like Workbench 2.0. It looks more like Windows 3.x.

I wonder if it was a patent thing? Workbench was a couple of years before OS/2 and had features not found elsewhere (e.g. right mouse menus).

I learnt REXX on an IBM mainframe...

kolla · 23 July 2018, 20:15

http://www.rexxinfo.org/ARexx_Lives.doc

Quote:

William Hawes developed the Amiga Rexx or ARexx language in 1987. He based it on Michael Cowlishaw's 1985 Rexx language definition in the book The Rexx Language (or TRL-1).

It is, after all, a computer language.

All reference to IBM and CBM making a deal point to the one same (and rather unreliable) source.

rare_j · 23 July 2018, 20:36

So what similarities does workplace shell have with amiga os?
I've never used os/2.

Nosferax · 23 July 2018, 20:56

Beside the grey background color? Maybe the use of a launcher/dock at the bottom like some people used on later amigas. But having used Warp (I made my internship at a subsidary of IBM in 1994) I don't remember any relation to Amiga OS in funtionnality. I did love OS/2 Warp.

As for Rexx, I used it to convert JCL routine and interface for the mainframe. Funny enough, the only book I had on Rexx was the one I had from my Amiga.

roondar · 23 July 2018, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by nogginthenog

OS/2 looks nothing like Workbench 2.0. It looks more like Windows 3.x.

I wonder if it was a patent thing? Workbench was a couple of years before OS/2 and had features not found elsewhere (e.g. right mouse menus).

I learnt REXX on an IBM mainframe...

The first versions of OS/2 did look like Windows 3.x. The latter ones didn't so much because Microsoft and IBM had a falling out. I'd still not say they where a carbon copy of the Amiga OS, but they certainly look closer to it than prior to that time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolla

http://www.rexxinfo.org/ARexx_Lives.doc

It is, after all, a computer language.

All reference to IBM and CBM making a deal point to the one same (and rather unreliable) source.

And how, pray tell, do you know it's an unreliable source. It's not because it doesn't agree with you, surely?

Anyway, it's not necessarily the only source. It's the only source I found and linked. And I didn't search for hours or anything.

gulliver · 23 July 2018, 23:14

I cant remember who licensed what from who, but I clearly remember William Hawes felt betrayed by Commodore in this IBM deal and left the Amiga scene to never come back.

kolla · 23 July 2018, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by gulliver

I cant remember who licensed what from who, but I clearly remember William Hawes felt betrayed by Commodore in this IBM deal and left the Amiga scene to never come back.

I never heard about any "IBM deal" until late 90ies (when some geek suddenly discovered that OS/2 and Amiga both had Rexx), only about Hawes getting pissed with Commodore for giving him a raw deal when including ARexx with AmigaOS (in the long tradition of pissing off Amiga developers)

The original ARexx manual does not mention IBM at all.

https://archive.org/details/ARexx_Us...awes_William_S.

idrougge · 24 July 2018, 23:14

I think what IBM licensed was the embossed "pseudo 3-D" look.

kolla · 24 July 2018, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by idrougge

I think what IBM licensed was the embossed "pseudo 3-D" look.

If so, they licensed it from the wrong company, as all CBM were doing with the "new" OS2 look was to mimic Openlook, NeXTSTEP, Motif etc.

Minuous · 25 July 2018, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolla

late 90ies (when some geek suddenly discovered that OS/2 and Amiga both had Rexx)

This was well known by the late 1980s.

kolla · 25 July 2018, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuous

This was well known by the late 1980s.

Well rumoured, you mean? Like in this 1993 thread?

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp...4/jAitzWftBdsJ

Anyways, Amiga OS2 with ARexx came in 1990, and copyrights in the CBM manual refers to Wishful Thinking, the company of William Hawes, which was selling ARexx as a product for Amiga before, and even after that. So it would be a little odd if a deal between IBM and CBM about ARexx was well known by the late 1980s.

https://issuu.com/ivanguidomartucci/...xx---ebook-eng

Minuous · 25 July 2018, 06:26

REXX being available for Amiga and OS/2 is what I was referring to.

23 July 2018, 14:49	#1
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	IBM licensed the Amiga GUI from Commodore in exchange for the REXX language license. According to spin doctors who keep editing Wikipedia.

23 July 2018, 14:57	#2
roondar Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,411	Well, I can't find those (undone) edits you refer to in the Wikipedia history pages for either Rexx or ARexx, nor do either of these pages mention this sooooo... Where did you get this idea? In fact.. Googling IBM Rexx Licensed Amiga... Finds your post as the first hit. Edit: digging a bit deeper, I did find a mention of an Commodore - IBM licensing deal where Commodore licensed Rexx from IBM (and it's presumed to have been in exchange for Amiga OS 2.0 GUI stuff, but not known for sure). This info comes from the OS/2 Warp History BBS - via a Wikipedia reference on the OS/2 page (see https://web.archive.org/web/20130127...s/OS2Warp.html). Last edited by roondar; 23 July 2018 at 15:05.

23 July 2018, 16:55	#6
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	IBM licensed the Amiga GUI from Commodore in exchange for the REXX language license. So IBM got to port Intuition? And what was William Hawes role in this IBM/CBM trade? Last edited by kolla; 23 July 2018 at 17:04.

23 July 2018, 19:41	#8
Daedalus Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Dublin, then Glasgow Posts: 6,335	ARexx predates OS2 by a couple of years. It was originally ported as a separate product to run under 1.3, and only later bundled with OS2 as a semi-replacement for AmigaBASIC. Edit: For clarity, when I said OS2, I meant Amiga OS 2, not OS/2 Last edited by Daedalus; 23 July 2018 at 20:49.

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23 July 2018, 16:06	#3
kolla Banned Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Trondheim, Norway Posts: 1,893	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga#...rating_systems

23 July 2018, 16:46	#5
meynaf son of 68k Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lyon / France Age: 51 Posts: 5,323	This fact is known since long, even though sources talking about it become more and more scarce (and i couldn't find one). IBM's Rexx became Amiga's ARexx, and Commodore's GUI became IBM's Workplace Shell.

23 July 2018, 19:57	#9
nogginthenog Amigan Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: London Posts: 1,311	OS/2 looks nothing like Workbench 2.0. It looks more like Windows 3.x. I wonder if it was a patent thing? Workbench was a couple of years before OS/2 and had features not found elsewhere (e.g. right mouse menus). I learnt REXX on an IBM mainframe...

23 July 2018, 20:36	#11
rare_j Zone Friend Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,176	So what similarities does workplace shell have with amiga os? I've never used os/2.

23 July 2018, 20:56	#12
Nosferax Registered User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Beauharnois,Qc,Canada Posts: 227	Beside the grey background color? Maybe the use of a launcher/dock at the bottom like some people used on later amigas. But having used Warp (I made my internship at a subsidary of IBM in 1994) I don't remember any relation to Amiga OS in funtionnality. I did love OS/2 Warp. As for Rexx, I used it to convert JCL routine and interface for the mainframe. Funny enough, the only book I had on Rexx was the one I had from my Amiga.

23 July 2018, 23:14	#14
gulliver BoingBagged Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The South of nowhere Age: 46 Posts: 2,358	I cant remember who licensed what from who, but I clearly remember William Hawes felt betrayed by Commodore in this IBM deal and left the Amiga scene to never come back.

24 July 2018, 23:14	#16
idrougge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 4,332	I think what IBM licensed was the embossed "pseudo 3-D" look.

25 July 2018, 06:26	#20
Minuous Coder/webmaster/gamer Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canberra/Australia Posts: 2,631	REXX being available for Amiga and OS/2 is what I was referring to.

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